Air conditioners, the vent ducts are not working!!!

[Chalkie]

Originally Posted by sundancer 87

It's my contention that all of the engineers that have had ahand at designing these things should ALL have to spend 30 days on the road, together too, stopping evey night for set up and doing all the things we have to do.

Unfortunately it is not just the engineers for our RVs. I would like to see the designer of a modern vehicle do something as simple as change the spark plugs. I would like to see the designer of some computer racks have to change a blade with minimal disruption. Most engineers (and if I offend someone here, sorry) can't walk and chew gum at the time. They simply, for the most part, do not understand practicalities.

[eightydo]

Engineers design a wheel barrow with rope handles but will it work (NOT)

[GOLDENYEARS]

Originally Posted by eightydo

Engineers design a wheel barrow with rope handles but will it work (NOT)

I must disagree with you, no offense intended. The rope handled wheelbarrow would work, but not work very well. Just like the current design of the air conditioning in our rigs, it works, but just not very welll!


Now for the 64.00 question: why, oh why: " There's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to do it over."
- Bergman, Jack

[Nana & Poppy]

Originally Posted by GOLDENYEARS

Now for the 64.00 question: why, oh why: " There's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to do it over."
- Bergman, Jack

Because when we do it over Dutchmen is not paying us, nor the warranty rate to the dealer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GOLDENYEARS]

Yup, you are correct. However a smart business person would seize the opportunity to make a rolling production change once someone, even a trailer owner, discovered the problem and came up with a simple solution as I did in the case of my 3750fl.

[Sinecure]

I got up on the roof today and removed the main A/C. I found what I expected... a very quick, shoddy job of trying to seal (and I use the term "seal" very loosely). After I removed all of the old foil tape, I applied 3M foil tape and sealed everything up really well, but forgot to take pictures of the finished product. When I first turned the AC on I heard rustling in the vents. It turns out prior to my fix, there had never been enough volume of air to actually push around the loose pieces of foil tape that ended up in the ducts from the factory.

Result: The vents forward of the main AC are blowing air at 10x the rate they were before the fix. However, the vents behind it show no improvement. I am hoping there is more foil tape in those vents, but I'll have to get a snake and try to fish the pieces out; a job for another day since LSU starts their football season tonight. I also need to remove all of the vents and tape them up the way eightydo did, so that may help a little bit as well.

Even though the rear vents aren't working any better, I am still happy with the progress I made today. At the very least I know cold air isn't being dumped into the ceiling like it was before and will instead be blowing into the coach where it belongs.

[eightydo]

You found the same shoddy work I found

[Infinityrver]

Originally Posted by GOLDENYEARS

Yup, you are correct. However a smart business person would seize the opportunity to make a rolling production change once someone, even a trailer owner, discovered the problem and came up with a simple solution as I did in the case of my 3750fl.

How right you are. Unfortunately, We're beating a dead horse with Dutchmen.

I went into an RV sales (that handles Infinity's, Montana's, and other brands) to pickup a couple of miscellaneous items. While in there I spoke to a parts guy about ordering a slide door for the screen door. I asked if he could order the item and he said just get the Vin number and they can order anything. I kindly said, 'are you sure you can? He says. 'ya we do it all the time with Keystone'. I said, 'they did that with a KZ I had before this Infinity'.

Well another parts guy right beside him laughed and let him know that Dutchmen products do not work that same way. I've even tried to get paint codes and pieces ordered from my Vin number in my recent, past.

For company that's been around for a significant amount of years, they're kinda behind the times. A Vin number is a real tool to a lot of companies. I don't know what Dutchmen thinks. Or, maybe they don't?

I thought all RV companies did the VIN number thing. I thought wrong.

[GOLDENYEARS]

Well after spending the day tweaking the in ceiling "supply air duct" and vents (they used to be "return air duct and intake grills") I am happy to report that I am freezing cold.

I hung a piece of toilet paper on the "slot" cut into the valance separating the front living area and the galley. Before the "tweak" and the separation of the return air and the supply air in the air distribution box and the removal of the duct between the roof top unit and the air box that piece of paper just hung like a limp rope. Now I am happy to reports that it is flying straight out like a flag in a 50 knot breeze.

One other tweak I made was to remove the silver tape the factory tech had put around each vent to keep it from blowing into the ceiling. I used a sticky butyl rubber caulking that comes in a roll and is used in the stick built industry to seal doors and windows from the weather. I had this stuff lying around and thought I would use it. Well it worked great. That is what I also used to install my baffle in the air distribution box. The baffle was made using a piece of the foil lined bubble wrap that is also used in the housing industry and also in some homes on wheels.

[ATCguy]

Wish I had one of you guys around here to do mine... I've never been any good at that kind of work, and I don't think my fat ass needs to be up on the roof of my rig anyway, or I might create other issues.

Of course, it might be a moot point anyway right now... as I may just end up trading this rig at the Hershey RV show next week.

[CarterKraft]

I am a little late to the party but the Heartland forum has a owner that fixed a very similar issue. He and others reported after performing the mod that a whole new batch of construction debris flew from the vents. I discovered the mod while researching a Torque SS trailer I was going to buy.

I plan on checking to see if my new unit will benefit from this mod, even though it's a different brand altogether, every little bit helps when it's 100+.

AC air flow problem SOLVED

[GOLDENYEARS]

Originally Posted by ATCguy

Wish I had one of you guys around here to do mine... I've never been any good at that kind of work, and I don't think my fat ass needs to be up on the roof of my rig anyway, or I might create other issues.

Of course, it might be a moot point anyway right now... as I may just end up trading this rig at the Hershey RV show next week.

I was able to do all of my "fixin" from the inside of my rig. it was easy breezy (had the air unit running all of the time.) You may want to check out the puck vents also. the silver tape they used is or was not put up very well. I now have ice cold air "blowing like crazy from all of the ceiling vents!!!

[Infinityrver]

I am finally able to say, 'I now have ice cold air running through my puck vents'. This is cool ..........literally.

I set my thermostat at 65, and for the first time since I have owned this rig, the air conditioner was able to shut down on its own within 15 minutes.

I have removed my 15K BTU ducted air conditioning unit from the roof. I have built up a cavity in the duct system where air was escaping in between the roof and ceiling. I used the metal duct tape like Dutchmen used originally.

Several months ago I had already taken my puck vents off and retaped those so that the flow of air would flow correctly.

I want to take this moment to thank everyone that has commented, replied, and or given their amateur or professional advise/opinion on this matter. You have all been helpful.

So, I am now a hero, with my wife............at least for one day .

[GOLDENYEARS]

Originally Posted by Infinityrver

I am finally able to say, 'I now have ice cold air running through my puck vents'. This is cool ..........literally.

I set my thermostat at 65, and for the first time since I have owned this rig, the air conditioner was able to shut down on its own within 15 minutes.

I have removed my 15K BTU ducted air conditioning unit from the roof. I have built up a cavity in the duct system where air was escaping in between the roof and ceiling. I used the metal duct tape like Dutchmen used originally.

Several months ago I had already taken my puck vents off and retaped those so that the flow of air would flow correctly.

I want to take this moment to thank everyone that has commented, replied, and or given their amateur or professional advise/opinion on this matter. You have all been helpful.

So, I am now a hero, with my wife............at least for one day .

All I can say is "wow that is great"!!!

Once I gave up on my dealer and dutchmen fixing their poor design (which I already had the answer on what to do and how to do it) I simply followed my own advice. working great now.

anyone else out there having problems cooling their rigs may get ahold of me by pm or at: ergalant1951@gmail.com or ergalant1951@tds.net. I can walk you through what you will have to do.

now where is my snowsuit?

[Infinityrver]

In our Infinity and other Thor brand units, such as; Redwood for one, have the same design. The company has designed these air conditioning units to be extremely quiet. Which they have accomplished.

I have a brother-in-law that recently purchased a Redwood and his air conditioning unit is the same design as in my 5er. He has plenty of good cold air and operates as it should have right from the manufacturer.

The design is good...........the problem lies in the manufacturing of the unit. The duct was slammed together and not properly pieced together. It was placed together in a hasty manner. With no regard for functioning properly. The duct had leaked in every corner. Thus, placing most of the air in the attic (void between the ceiling and roof).

I will be going to the Super RV show in Tampa January 2014. For obvious reasons I will not be checking out the new Infinity's. We will be checking out 5ers that were built by people that sincerely care.

I have never seen sooooo many issues, with my rig, due to Dutchmens inept manufacturing work force. Apparently, they have no leadership within the manufacturing process. I would highly recommend that Dutchmen get educated in leadership skills. This will allow them to lead their workforce and supervise laborers in a correct manner.

[kevinmiles]

I can't disagree ...... virtually all the issues we have had can be traced back to sloppy workmanship at the factory.

[GOLDENYEARS]

i have had two other 5ers prior to this one both sob's. one an entry level rig (not really costly) and one that was supposed to be top notch. I am thinking that unless one buys a coach from a company that custom builds their rigs the workmanship will suffer. In other words, anything that comes down a line for mass production will have problems.

Overall I believe that Dutchmen makes a decent product, however with that said they really need to fix the air conditioner problem in some of their brands. An owner laying out 50k to 100k should NOT have to trouble shoot the problems with their rig. AND when an owner does find a better way to do something perhaps they (THE COMPANY HEADS) should pay attention...

[hddecker]

Originally Posted by Chalkie

Unfortunately it is not just the engineers for our RVs. I would like to see the designer of a modern vehicle do something as simple as change the spark plugs. I would like to see the designer of some computer racks have to change a blade with minimal disruption. Most engineers (and if I offend someone here, sorry) can't walk and chew gum at the time. They simply, for the most part, do not understand practicalities.

Hey Chalkie, I hate to do it, but here's another one for you.

I worked for an old time mechanic, you the guy that could open the hood, listen to the engine running and know what the problem was. Now it's "Technicians" with their scan tools and computers and they can't get it right a lot of the time.

OK here it is, the mechanic used to call the engineers designing the cars of the day "Educated Idiots".

Your post just joints out that it is still true today.

I am so happy that my son wanted to become a tradesman/craftsman rather that become one of them. Besides the fact that he has built us a new kitchen and bathroom in the last 2 houses we have bought.

[hddecker]

Originally Posted by kevinmiles

I can't disagree ...... virtually all the issues we have had can be traced back to sloppy workmanship at the factory.

Hey Kevin how's the weather in PQ. We are rockin' and rollin' on the rock. When we set up we were pointed into the wind it wasn't happy about that and decided to shift 90 degrees.

You can trace the sloppy workmanship on the fact that Thor has about 95% of the production in the RV industry.

I don't think they will be happy until they have 100%.

[ATCguy]

I had a very good discussion with one of the Dutchmen representatives at the Hershey RV show yesterday in re our A/C issues.

Fortunately for me, a line of strong T-Storms blew thru the area around 4pm that chased most of the attendees off for the day... and I waited to head over to the show right after. As such, there weren't many of us around... and he wasn't being pulled in different directions.

The result was a good 30-minute or so discussion of the issues we have with the design & workmanship of these ducted A/C systems. He was patient, non-defensive... and more importantly, understanding... as I detailed the problems we've seen & our self-initiated solutions to them. I explained that in most cases, the overall design itself wasn't necessarily flawed... but the manor in which the workmanship was performed on the assembly line was woefully insufficient. .

And... I also explained that the reason the majority of us have had to find our own solutions correct the problems ourselves is that we can't get their support network of technicians in the field to perform then for us... which to me is a bigger issue than the problem itself.

The good part is that we were standing in one of their show demo rigs (a Voltage 3895) that has the same ducted cooling system as my 3200 rig... AND... it was NOT keeping the unit cool. I explained how the duct work was most probably dumping cool air into the ceiling... and that the separator between the blower & return air box up top probably was deficient too.

When I mentioned that the ceiling under my main 15k A/C unit also 'sweats' with condensation on a hot day... he stated that they were aware of that issue for some owners. When I asked what their solution to the problem was, he didnt try to evade the question, but did state that he didnt exactly know... which was fine. I'd much rather someone tell me the truth about not knowing, than trying to bluff me with B/S. I stated that my concern was with possible mold & mildew growth on between the interior & exterior roof panels, in that there was no way to vent the area so it could dry... to which he agreed, that could be a problem.

When we fnished, he stated that he would take this and other feedback he receives back to the plant, and push the concerns up the chain of command. In parting, I asked if he was aware of this website... to which he replied that he was 'aware', but hadn't really combed thru the various threads. I then informed him of this thread, and suggested it might make for good reading due to the sheer number of posts made on this issue. He said that he would, and I hope he will.

Bottom line... while I got no assurances that any corrections would be made (not that I expected to, as changes to production lines have to be made by committee)... I was impressed by his willingness to patiently listen & empathize with the issues I presented.

Just thought I'd pass the info along. He'll be there all week in the Voltage area should anyone else attend the shw and want to speak with him.