No Brakes

[steve and Melanie]

No Brakes hooked up to the 5 th wheel and pulled it out after the winter and no brakes the truck is good and the trailer had brakes when we parked it checked fuses none blown no idea where to go from there 2009 den 38 RG

[ATCguy]

Originally Posted by steve and Melanie

No Brakes hooked up to the 5 th wheel and pulled it out after the winter and no brakes the truck is good and the trailer had brakes when we parked it checked fuses none blown no idea where to go from there 2009 den 38 RG

Not trying to be an ass, but… help us help you. Punctuation works wonders when asking for assistance. I had to re-read your post 3 times to figure where one sentence ended, and another began.

Ok, moving on… issue could be a few things, including:

- rusted assemblies locking things up
- corroded or fouled pin connection on either the truck or RVs electrical pigtail
- loose, broken, or disconnected ground wire
- loose, broken, or disconnected power wire
- issue with the truck’s brake controller

If you’re comfortable with checking electrical issues, I’d recommend getting out your test-light, and verifying you have power coming from your truck’s pigtail receptacle. You can find diagrams on which pin is the brake by doing a Google search. If that’s good, then I’d begin checking the wiring on your rig… verifying you have juice to the brakes.

I’m sure others will chime in with suggestions as well. Good luck, and let us know what you find.

[franktafl]

If you can get the wheels off the ground, apply power to pin number two on your trailer connection, that will set the brakes. If that works, look to your controller or look to see if there is a corroded connection at the trailer connector.

Frank

[dsol]

I would try to eliminate the tow vehicle first. Is there another tow vehicle you can just plug into the trailer and manually squeeze the brake controller level to see if they work? You don’t even need to hook up the trailer and tow it to test as you can have someone stand near the trailer wheels and they will hear the electric brakes activate and should also see the trailer brake lights come on.

Or, an easy way to check your current tow vehicle is while your trailer is plugged into the bed use a multi meter on the plug at the bumper and see if you get power where supposed to.

Do the turn signals and other lights come on?

Does the tow vehicle acknowledge that it is plugged in to the trailer when you connect it like most newer tow vehicles do?

Does the tow vehicle brake controller work if using it on another trailer?

Those are steps I would try to determine if it even is the trailer at all or the tow vehicle then you can attempt the suggestions pointed out above.

Good luck.

[acdii]

Check for mice, they love to chew on wires. How good is your hearing? If you can hear high frequency sounds, Not dog whistle high, but audible high, then pull the breakaway cable out as if the trailer got disconnected, then walk around to each wheel and listen for it. If you can hear a high pitched sound at each wheel, then put the breakaway pin back in, and go around again. If you no longer hear it, then the brake electrical is good. You can also hook up and do a pull test with the breakaway pulled. This will eliminate the trailer as the issue. If you don't hear the sound, or the tires aren't dragging, then start at the battery and work you way back. If there is a disconnect switch, you will find that there is a wire between the disconnect and positive post which is for the breakaway system. Start troubleshooting from there and work your way back. Check there is +12v at the breakaway, if so, good, then move to the left front wheel which is where the 12V+ from the breakaway and truck will be, If you don't have power at that point, you have a wiring issue. Not all manufacturers will wire on the street side to the brakes, but you can easily determine that by the connection, there is only one feeder wire, the other side are inside the axle with a short piece coming out with a tap and a wire to the backing plate.

[Wgjr]

When that happened to me, it was the brake controller.

[capeharj]

Originally Posted by steve and Melanie

No Brakes hooked up to the 5 th wheel and pulled it out after the winter and no brakes the truck is good and the trailer had brakes when we parked it checked fuses none blown no idea where to go from there 2009 den 38 RG

So nice we have an English teacher on here, beyond the punctuation, take the unit around the block slowly. A lot of times, the mechanism that operates the brakes, in the wheels, gets a little corrosion over the winter and needs to be exercised. Sometimes, I need to drive a mile or so pumping the brake occasionally, and increase the current on the controller, to get them working.

[sundancer 87]

So nice we have an English teacher on here, beyond the punctuation

I'm not an English or Composition teacher but I did go to school where you learned these things and were expected to use them for good communication skills.
I find it difficult to concentrate on an answer to a problem when I'm not sure I understood the question because of poor composition, spelling and punctuation.
Smart ass remarks are always welcome because they show one's mettle.

[capeharj]

Originally Posted by sundancer 87

So nice we have an English teacher on here, beyond the punctuation

I'm not an English or Composition teacher but I did go to school where you learned these things and were expected to use them for good communication skills.
I find it difficult to concentrate on an answer to a problem when I'm not sure I understood the question because of poor composition, spelling and punctuation.
Smart ass remarks are always welcome because they show one's mettle.

And, yes you are welcome, and what is your mettle, sarcastic?

[2Slides]

Mine Denali was in storage also. I checked it out and found one of the dogs chewed a brake wire. So i replaced the magnet for that wheel and lubed all bearings. Hooked up the tow vehicle, 2018 Chevrolet K2500, and it showed faults in the system and brakes would not operate. The breakaway also would not activate the brakes. The battery on the trailer was dead and I knew it. I waited until I replaced the battery on the trailer. Hooked up the tow vehicle again and after a few applications of the brake the trailer brakes worked just fine. Took for a short trip to check all and all works perfectly.

[ATCguy]

Ok… my turn for this issue to pop up on my rig:

Left the Black Hills earlier today for Sheridan, WY… eventually heading up into Montana next week. All interstate most the way, so it’s supposed to be an easy ride. As I began descending some of the steeper grades… particularly those with curves… I noticed that I seemed to require more braking than usual, and began to get the sensation that I was being “pushed” from the rear.

So when I got to a downhill straight area with very little traffic, I allowed the truck to coast, and tried squeezing the brake controller paddles. Nada… nothing… no resistance at all.

I made a fuel stop a few miles later… and when I started the truck, I got the first dash warning I’ve seen lately: after initial usual routine of displaying TRAILER CONNECTED… as soon as I put the truck in gear, I got WIRING FAULT WITH TRAILER.

I found a slope nearby fuel stop, and decided to test the brakes again… this time at slow speed. After coming to a full stop, I then put the truck in gear… rolled a bit, and tried squeezing the paddles. Again, nothing. So suspicions confirmed… no trailer brakes.

Drove over to the only RV place in the town I was in, and explained my issue to the service guy. He was already swamped with work, but said he’d come out and run a few quick electrical tests.to at least try to diagnose the problem.

I won’t go over everything, but the weirdest thing he found was from my truck’s trailer receptacle for the RV’s pigtail.

When I squeezed the brake controller paddles, he got a solid 13 volts from the appropriate brake pin. But… when I only stepped on the truck’s brake pedal, he could barely get 2 volts from it.

That would lead me to think the problem is with my truck, and not the RV. But wait… if that’s correct, and we had a good 13 volts when squeezing the paddles… then why did the RV brakes still not work?

So I paid the man for his time, and continued on my way to the campground. But I’m now wondering if I have TWO issues?

I made an appointment at the local Ford dealer here on Saturday to have the truck checked out, and… if that doesn’t solve the issue, I’ve already called & made an appointment at an RV service department at my next destination in Montana next week to bring the rig in to figure it out.

But just wondering what you electrical pros think about that low brake pedal voltage readout vs the paddle voltage readout… and yet, no RV brakes regardless? By the way, all 4 brake assemblies are fairly new (less than 2 years)… so I’m pretty sure it’s not a mechanical issue. And no obvious broken/loose wires to the assemblies either.

[2Slides]

ATC Guy Is your gain setting the same as before. On my Chevy with the gain at zero I get no brakes. But get brakes when I use the paddles. My gain is at 4.0 and brakes work great. Also my trailer connector worked fine for a 300 mile trip. When hooking up to come home I got a warning. Wife went back and jiggled the connector. No change. I went back and pulled it out and put it back in FIRMLY and everything was working. No issues afterward. Just a thought.

[ATCguy]

Originally Posted by 2Slides

ATC Guy Is your gain setting the same as before….

Well, I usually run it between 7.0 - 8-5, depending on whether the roads are wet or not… whether I have my motorcycle loaded in the back or not (heavier), etc. Dry roads like today with the bike, I usually run it at 8.0. When I began feeling I had an issue, ran it all the way up to 10.0… no change. Still nothing.

And during the tests, we plugged-unplugged the pigtail quite a few times… making sure we had a good set. Still nada.

Appreciate the thoughts though… never can tell when someone has an idea I haven’t tried yet.

[acdii]

Originally Posted by ATCguy

Ok… my turn for this issue to pop up on my rig:

Left the Black Hills earlier today for Sheridan, WY… eventually heading up into Montana next week. All interstate most the way, so it’s supposed to be an easy ride. As I began descending some of the steeper grades… particularly those with curves… I noticed that I seemed to require more braking than usual, and began to get the sensation that I was being “pushed” from the rear.

So when I got to a downhill straight area with very little traffic, I allowed the truck to coast, and tried squeezing the brake controller paddles. Nada… nothing… no resistance at all.

I made a fuel stop a few miles later… and when I started the truck, I got the first dash warning I’ve seen lately: after initial usual routine of displaying TRAILER CONNECTED… as soon as I put the truck in gear, I got WIRING FAULT WITH TRAILER.

I found a slope nearby fuel stop, and decided to test the brakes again… this time at slow speed. After coming to a full stop, I then put the truck in gear… rolled a bit, and tried squeezing the paddles. Again, nothing. So suspicions confirmed… no trailer brakes.

Drove over to the only RV place in the town I was in, and explained my issue to the service guy. He was already swamped with work, but said he’d come out and run a few quick electrical tests.to at least try to diagnose the problem.

I won’t go over everything, but the weirdest thing he found was from my truck’s trailer receptacle for the RV’s pigtail.

When I squeezed the brake controller paddles, he got a solid 13 volts from the appropriate brake pin. But… when I only stepped on the truck’s brake pedal, he could barely get 2 volts from it.

That would lead me to think the problem is with my truck, and not the RV. But wait… if that’s correct, and we had a good 13 volts when squeezing the paddles… then why did the RV brakes still not work?

So I paid the man for his time, and continued on my way to the campground. But I’m now wondering if I have TWO issues?

I made an appointment at the local Ford dealer here on Saturday to have the truck checked out, and… if that doesn’t solve the issue, I’ve already called & made an appointment at an RV service department at my next destination in Montana next week to bring the rig in to figure it out.

But just wondering what you electrical pros think about that low brake pedal voltage readout vs the paddle voltage readout… and yet, no RV brakes regardless? By the way, all 4 brake assemblies are fairly new (less than 2 years)… so I’m pretty sure it’s not a mechanical issue. And no obvious broken/loose wires to the assemblies either.

That voltage reading is correct. I assume you have the factory brake controller, if correct, this is how it works.

Unlike the aftermarket controllers, the Integrated Brake Controller, IBC, is directly tied to the vehicles braking system. Not tapped to the brake light switch, but to the brake pedal. When lightly braking, it senses this and only applies so much energy to the trailer brakes. It is also tied to the speedometer, so that it knows just how much energy to provide to get the right amount of trailer braking. I also knows when you panic stop to apply full braking to the trailer.

Since the truck was sitting still when the brakes were applied it sent very little power to the brakes. The paddles override the system and apply power directly to the trailer. So what you saw was 100% normal.

Newer aftermarket brake controllers can do similar functions, just not in real time as the IBC does. Older brake controllers, those with pendulums and a rotary dial for the gain, do not. Example is when lightly braking to maintain speed, the older ones continue to ramp up the current, eventually locking up the trailer brakes, so you need to modulate the brake pedal in order to avoid this, where the IBC and newer digitals regulate the brakes for slowing or coasting applications.

Since you had full battery at the 7 pin, the problem is in the trailer braking, possibly the auto adjusters are anything but auto, or you had a grease leak on a couple wheels, coating the shoes.

Do this, hook it up, then take a rubber band and secure the IBC paddles to full braking, then go around and listen to each wheel. You should hear a high pitched sound coming from each wheel. If you don't it either isn't getting power, or there is an issue with the ground.

You can also fully test the braking system without hooking up, pull the break away cable out, that applies 100% battery to the brakes.

[dsol]

Acdii is correct. My 2017 Ram and IBC work the same.

As far a troubleshooting goes you might see if someone at the RV park has a truck you can hookup to your trailer and use together and drive slowly around the park and do some tests with your trailer. Then maybe even try your truck on their trailer. I wouldn’t worry about properly setting up weight distribution hitches or sway bars for some 5 mph testing as long as trailers and tow vehicles are similar sized AND you only drive slowly.

I am betting it is your trailer.

[persistent]

Its likely in the trailer wiring.
Check the emergency disconnect switch.
Look for broken wires hanging loose.
Check the voltage at the brake drum connection when applying the trailer brake in the tow vehicle. Trace it back.

[ATCguy]

Thanks for all of the input. I got busy yesterday, and then high winds knocked our internet out last night, so I couldn’t respond earlier.

The variable brake pedal voltage output sounds logical… and I’ll admit I wondered about that myself. But again, being more mechanically inclined than electrical… I never know if my thoughts are logical.

Like the majority of you, I feel the issue is on the RV side. I’ll fiddle with a few things on it later today, and if it’s something obvious like a broken wire, I’ll fix it. But again, neither I nor the guy who initially tried to diagnose it saw nothing like that… and I’m no good at trying to trace down a short.

Give me nuts & bolts and a wrench any day over wires and a multimeter.

So I’m sure I’ll probably end up towing it on up to Montana on Sunday as scheduled… I-90 all the way, and no ultra-steep grades… and then keeping the appointment I’ve already made at the shop up there on Tuesday where they can make the necessary repairs.

[ATCguy]

Just getting around to follow up on my previous posts…

Issue did turn out to be a “simple” wiring issue on the rig. I finally found a shop that could squeeze me in, After checking the simple stuff, they found that by jiggling the wires by the axles… the voltage on the meter would come & go. Ergo, the wires running inside the axle-tubes had to be shorting (metal-on-metal). They removed & replaced the wiring… and the brakes now work as advertised.

[dsol]

Great news and thanks for the update. Always nice to learn what the fix was in case someone else experiences the same.