Cold Alberta Winters

[The Acer]

I have a 2012 Dutchmen Komfort 2720RL.
I am hoping to weather the cold Alberta winters, and I am looking for some feedback on what I am proposing, and maybe with the other user's experience to tell me what works. I will be hooked up to 30amp service, sewer but no water, water is turned off, and I will fill my fresh tank and use electric pump.

1. Remove all underbelly cover and heat trace all water and septic lines, secure with zip ties. Use remaining heat trace to act as heat pads on bottom of tanks and attach by tape

2. Cheap skirting, EZ Snap kit, to essentially stop the wind from blowing under

3. There is wool insulation between the tank and underbelly, upgrade to an R5 polystyrene board and glue the polystyrene board to the underbelly cover, Stuff some R12 in open holes where seen warranted. Do you guys see value in doing this item?

4. Being I have 30amp and 15 amp service, utilize electric heat, use 12/3 extension cord for the 15amp service for 1500 watt heater to prevent fire hazard. I want to minimize propane use, however, I am thinking of wiring a switch to the RV furnace fan to run 24/7. This will circulate heat to the underbelly by radiant off of the ducting.

I appreciate some feedback on this.

[ATCguy]

Originally Posted by The Acer

I have a 2012 Dutchmen Komfort 2720RL.
I am hoping to weather the cold Alberta winters, and I am looking for some feedback on what I am proposing, and maybe with the other user's experience to tell me what works... I appreciate some feedback on this.

I'm not sure many (if any) of us are going to be able to give you a lot of feedback on this as... while we've endured cooler temps for short periods, I'm not sure any of us have been craz... <ahem>, excuse me... I mean not sure any of us have tried enduring a Canadian winter in an RV.

I'll simply say that it seems you've got a decent plan. As to whether your plan will work is a whole other issue, since you're trying to use a tool (a recreational RV) that is completely unsuitable for the job you're asking of it.

I've stated this on the forum before: with the exorbitant prices ski resorts ask for their lodging facilities... if RV's were meant to be used in such cold conditions, you'd bet the manufacturers would be advertising that fact. And the very fact that no RV commercial has ever been made promoting that kind of use should be a VERY strong clue.

So all I can do is wish you "good luck", and hope that the expenses you're going to run up in preparation, trying to stay warm, and repairs (and trust me, you're GOING to have some) aren't going to be as much as what you would've spent on finding a far more suitable place to spend the winter up there.

[franktafl]

You did not mention if the rv park meters your electrical usage and you have to pay �� for electricity. If you have a 15/30/50 outlet in the box, you can use an adaptor for your 30 to the 50, use the 30 for a good heater in your rv because those 2” walls are not going to protect you from the brutal cold you will expect up there. Then use the 15 for your underbelly. But, remember one thing, the connections for your water are in the wall and WILL freeze so put a heater near that area (in mine, it was the bathroom). I used one of those electric oil type radiators.

[The Acer]

My service is 30 amp and 15 amp only, no 50amp
This rv park does not meter electricity, he just increases the rent through the winter.
The water is shut off during winter, but I am able to fill from 100ft garden hose

I will actually be in kamloops this winter, but want to make it more winter proof as I usually work in alberta.

I figure it was a ugly job doing this heat tracing and extra insulation, but less ugly than dealing with broken frozen pipes at -10F

I started to open the underbelly, there are very little amount of water lines, mostly inlet from the fresh water tank.
Most of the water lines are under the counter, behind fridge and pantry

My plan is heat trace the city water hook up under the camper.

Separately heat trace the garden hose with insulation for the city water connection

[ATCguy]

Originally Posted by The Acer

...The water is shut off during winter, but I am able to fill from 100ft garden hose

I will actually be in kamloops this winter, but want to make it more winter proof as I usually work in alberta.

I figure it was a ugly job doing this heat tracing and extra insulation, but less ugly than dealing with broken frozen pipes at -10F...

Ok, now I'm confused. Are you now saying that you will be in Kamloops, and NOT be living in the rig during the winter?

If so, then I'm missing the point. Just "winterize" the thing, and who cares if it gets cold-soaked? Use compressed air to blow ALL of the water out of the lines, then open the low-point drains, and then drain all of the holding tanks. If there's no liquid in the lines, then there's nothing to expand when below freezing, and no chance of burst lines.

EDITED:
Ok, read your post below. Got it now.

[The Acer]

I will be living in the camper this winter,
Kamloops gets to -20C for a cold week. And if I am going to “winter-proof” it, I rather winter proof it for -40C as I usually work in alberta.

I don’t have city water connection, as the park turns off the individual taps, as the lines haven’t been burried deep enough, but allows you to fill from a tap, and I can run a full port garden hose to fill my fresh water tank

[franktafl]

Originally Posted by The Acer

I will be living in the camper this winter,
Kamloops gets to -20C for a cold week. And if I am going to “winter-proof” it, I rather winter proof it for -40C as I usually work in alberta.

I don’t have city water connection, as the park turns off the individual taps, as the lines haven’t been burried deep enough, but allows you to fill from a tap, and I can run a full port garden hose to fill my fresh water tank

Your dump hose will freeze if you keep your grey water valve open all the time (from experience). How will you protect it?

[The Acer]

Heat trace water What’s above the under belly

Heat trace, and if it can find some insulation wrap for the little bit that dips below the underbelly

Leave dump valve closed till it’s time to dump, as flowing water doesn’t usually freeze

Skirting help stop draft/crosswind under the trailer

[ewarnerusa]

I stumbled across this site and thought of this thread. These are heated fresh and waste hoses. Quite the investment, but it seems like this is the situation the OP is in!
https://nofreezewaterhose.com/

[franktafl]

I use a version of the heated water hose, it worked very well. I bought the pipe heat strips for the park’s water system and that worked well to keep water flowing. I kept the gray water open (yep!) and my sewer hose froze solid - live and learn-

I used heat lamps under the rv, that was dumb also. Didn’t do anything to protect the tanks or the RV. It might have heated some but 50 mph winds made that an impossibility. I have a water softener and used the wrap for a hot water heater to protect that in addition to the heated water hoses.

Frank

[Witt84z]

Seems you have a good plan. I would add heat trace to the tank valves and water fill. I would use Great Foam not insulation for the holes.

[persistent]

Pretty good plan proposed above. Lots of good advice.

Belly must be insulated and sealed to keep water above freezing. Seal frame to bottom of trailer. Seal belly cover to frame. Plug all holes with Great Stuff expanding foam.

Wool insulation is very good even if it gets wet. You probably have white fiber glass. It looses its insulating capability if it gets soaked with leakage or condensation.

With the cover off, try to seal off spaces underneath that do not contain water. Less space to heat increases odds of success. I used Styrofoam board cut to fit tight on sides of insulated space.

There are temperature controlled stick on pads for keeping tanks thawed.
There are heat wraps for dump valves. Valve can freeze shut or open. A hair drier can thaw them.
Protect low point drain valves if they are on the outside.
Wrap pipes with heat tape, and insulation over the tape. Heat tape with temperature sensors are the best. Over heating is bad for plastic.

Garden hose is not recommend for use with drinking water. It has toxic chemicals that leach into the water. Get potable water hose. Stow it inside except while filling the tank. Have a short section of garden hose to be connected to the 100 foot potable water hose and use it just for flushing waste. Carefully store it separate from the potable water hose.

Stow the dump hose inside when not in use. Consider a way to keep it isolated from other things. Perhaps keep it in a plastic tub with close fitting lid.

Fill and dump on warm sunny days as much as possible.

Water heater must be “on” when ever there is water in it.

Closed spaces under counters and cabinets can freeze especially if there are un-insulated wheel wells in them. Consider ventilating spaces that contain water. My water pump froze in a closed space under a bedroom cabinet.

Single pane windows, fan covers, and sky lights will condense moisture and even freeze. If heat can’t keep up, consider Reflectix cut to fit openings. Use styrofoam on outside walls in cabinets if they get too cold.
https://www.menards.com/main/buildin...ier/c-5778.htm

Bump outs need serious consideration for cold, snow, and ice protection. Plumbing in bump outs are especially vulnerable.

There are endless old threads on what other people have done. Finding the best keywords for search is a challenge.

[persistent]

Install thermometers in blind spaces. If the belly gets too cold turn on the propane furnace until it warms up.

[ATCguy]

Originally Posted by persistent

Install thermometers in blind spaces. If the belly gets too cold turn on the propane furnace until it warms up.

That’ll be hard to do when he’s away from the rig at work…

[persistent]

Originally Posted by ATCguy

That’ll be hard to do when he’s away from the rig at work…

Of course you can get internet connected thermometers for remote viewing, but local wired or wireless will do the job. Weather forecasts and reporting can give input as to what is happening, and if you monitor the temp periodically, you can anticipate how low the inside will drop based on the outside forecast.

Use your head to analyze the inputs.

[ATCguy]

Originally Posted by persistent

Of course you can get internet connected thermometers for remote viewing, but local wired or wireless will do the job...

Ha… yeah, ok, spend more money, more money… sheesh.

Yeah, you know, if you throw enough money & materials at something… almost anyone can make damn-near anything work. But at what cost? At what point does it become an exercise in futility over less expensive options.

The thing I’m really going to be most interested in, is the post-winter report. I sincerely hope the OP follows up this spring to let us know how it all went. And I really do wish him nothing but the best of luck… and I hope he comes back and says things went pretty smooth, with only a couple of minor issues.

And I really, really, REALLY hope that he’ll be able to come back and tell me that I’m wrong.

But it’s my opinion that after all is said & done, and the final tally-sheet is balanced… he’s going to have spent hundreds, if not THOUSANDS of dollars more in all these preparation costs, the propane for heat, repairs on things that weren’t manufactured to be used in such conditions (both parts & labor), and possibly even temporary quarters if it doesn’t go as planned, than he would have by just opting for something more seasonal-appropriate for the living conditions he’s about to encounter.