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02-24-2021, 05:40 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Kingwood
Posts: 11
Texas
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Lippert 6 point leveling system installation
New to the forum. Just purchased a used 2018 Voltage 3005 toy hauler at the end of 2020 and absolutely love it. Unfortunately it does not have the leveling system. I knew I wanted a 3005, and I wanted the leveling system but a) the 3005's are not easy to come by - in my approx. 1 year search I only found a handful for sale, and b) the ones that did have the leveling system had not been well maintained. The one we eventually bought looks like it just came off the showroom - inside and out. With all that being said I figured I'd just get the leveling system installed. The one Dutchmen dealer in the area (Houston) quoted me $10K, though, for purchase and installation of a hydraulic system. The system itself is ~$5K - give or take - but I told them I thought $5K for installation was high. They told me they'd have to get into the underbelly to run the hydraulic lines and other things that make it really "hard", as they said.
This seems crazy, especially sine other posts I've seen were quoting more like $2K for installation. Does this seem reasonable to anyone and, if not, are there any alternatives you can recommend? I've also called the local Camping World to see what they'd do - twice - but they always tell me they'll have to have a service manager call me back, and they never do.
Any help/guidance would be greatly appreciated. We really love this unit but I do really want the auto-leveling system. We don't do anything crazy with this but we do "boondock"/dry camp and being able to easily level out in a field in the forest would just be icing on the cake.
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02-24-2021, 06:57 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Cody
Posts: 1,764
Wyoming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlpatte
...The system itself is ~$5K - give or take - but I told them I thought $5K for installation was high. They told me they'd have to get into the underbelly to run the hydraulic lines and other things that make it really "hard", as they said...
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Yeah, i can see where it'd really be a PITA to install... as it's far easier to install on an open frame during initial construction. But yeah, I'm agreed that 5-grand seems a tad high.
Just doing some basic math... you figure most shop rates are about $120-$150 an hour for labor. If we take the top end of that at $150/hr, and divide that into $5,000... that = 100 hours of labor.
Divide that by 8-hours in a work day, and they're basically saying that it would take someone a full 12½ days to install it... and yeah, that seems a bit excessive to me. And even if they put 2 men on it... sure, it would reduce that down to 6 days, but... with 2 men, you'd think the job would be a tad easier and could possibly be done in less time.
So yeah... it seems to me that either they just don't want to do the job, or that they are just trying to run you over the coals.
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Tom
2013 VOLTAGE 3200 (EPIC I & II)
2014 Ford F-450 PLATINUM
2018 BMW R1200GS RALLYE
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02-25-2021, 04:57 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Calabasas
Posts: 785
California
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Something tells me you will give up on this one eventually. As the post above says it is far easier to install on an empty frame than one like you have. Lots of hydraulic lines to run and crimp plus fuses etc. I love mine on my 3305 but don’t think I would spend that kind of dough to install after the fact.
Dealers like to repair and replace but don’t have the ability to design and build in most cases.
My two cents.
Good luck.
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2018 Voltage 3305
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02-25-2021, 11:52 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Wesley Chapel
Posts: 3,076
Florida
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Investigate the lippert ground control system. Electric and not hydraulic and can be 4 point or six point. I have it in my grand design and it seems to work well.
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02-25-2021, 02:54 PM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Kingwood
Posts: 11
Texas
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I agree dsol - probably going to give up. I can't see adding another $10K in cost to the fifth wheel.
franktafl - I had actually been considering the electric system. The one dealer I've been able to get to talk to me (or even return my calls) said I would not be happy with it and that I really need to go with the hydraulic for things like being able to lift the trailer in an emergency to change a tire, etc. Then they quote me $10K to do it
At any rate, the electric may be a good compromise. The one question I've had, though, is if would still be as much of a PITA (as ATCguy puts it). Do they still have to run wires through the underbelly, etc. If I ever get any dealer to return my call I will ask them. Thanks for the suggestion.
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02-25-2021, 03:30 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Wesley Chapel
Posts: 3,076
Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlpatte
I agree dsol - probably going to give up. I can't see adding another $10K in cost to the fifth wheel.
franktafl - I had actually been considering the electric system. The one dealer I've been able to get to talk to me (or even return my calls) said I would not be happy with it and that I really need to go with the hydraulic for things like being able to lift the trailer in an emergency to change a tire, etc. Then they quote me $10K to do it
At any rate, the electric may be a good compromise. The one question I've had, though, is if would still be as much of a PITA (as ATCguy puts it). Do they still have to run wires through the underbelly, etc. If I ever get any dealer to return my call I will ask them. Thanks for the suggestion.
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They could actually run the wires in small conduits to the lift system and not disturb the underbelly. I use a bottle jack to lift the axles during a tire change or get AAA gold.
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02-25-2021, 04:37 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Tahlequah
Posts: 3,079
Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlpatte
I agree dsol - probably going to give up. I can't see adding another $10K in cost to the fifth wheel.
franktafl - I had actually been considering the electric system. The one dealer I've been able to get to talk to me (or even return my calls) said I would not be happy with it and that I really need to go with the hydraulic for things like being able to lift the trailer in an emergency to change a tire, etc. Then they quote me $10K to do it
At any rate, the electric may be a good compromise. The one question I've had, though, is if would still be as much of a PITA (as ATCguy puts it). Do they still have to run wires through the underbelly, etc. If I ever get any dealer to return my call I will ask them. Thanks for the suggestion.
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As dsol said, dealers are fixer uppers, not engineers. One can lift, not suggested by the company, with the electric system. Any excuse not to have to put on the thinking cap and make the 'technicians' actually think.
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2013 Voltage 3800, 2012 Chevy 3500 HD
2010 Yamaha V Star 950
2009 Yamaha Raider
Volunteering with Habitat for Humanity Caravanners
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03-03-2021, 08:55 PM
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#8
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New Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Bennington
Posts: 1
Nebraska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATCguy
Yeah, i can see where it'd really be a PITA to install... as it's far easier to install on an open frame during initial construction. But yeah, I'm agreed that 5-grand seems a tad high.
Just doing some basic math... you figure most shop rates are about $120-$150 an hour for labor. If we take the top end of that at $150/hr, and divide that into $5,000... that = 100 hours of labor.
Divide that by 8-hours in a work day, and they're basically saying that it would take someone a full 12½ days to install it... and yeah, that seems a bit excessive to me. And even if they put 2 men on it... sure, it would reduce that down to 6 days, but... with 2 men, you'd think the job would be a tad easier and could possibly be done in less time.
So yeah... it seems to me that either they just don't want to do the job, or that they are just trying to run you over the coals.
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$5000 divided by $150/hour = 33 hours for installation of the 6-point lift system, maybe worth considering? Also, maybe they could run the hydraulic lines along the frame below the underbelly cover to reduce the cost?
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03-03-2021, 09:21 PM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Norman
Posts: 27
Oklahoma
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The one thing no one is telling you is that on the inside of the frame where the hydraulic lines run through the frame, are welded strengthening plates to strengthen where the hole is cut in the frame for the lines to pass through. These are welded on the inside of the frame. You can only see this if you remove the Chloroplast underbelly from the rig.
You have to remember that this is basic mechanics and not rocket science. I would do it myself if I were you and run the hydraulic lines on the outside of the frame. Depending where you live, there are plenty of companies that make up custom hydraulic lines for the construction industry. Bring one of the levelers down there so they can size up the fitting opening and give them the lengths and or turns and your good to go. Price is more than reasonable.
Ounce you have the lines in hand, this is no more than a 12 hour job. Bring it to your local mechanic and your still looking at $1200-$1500 in labor.
Plus, if you do it this way and do have a leak, you can get to it easy and not have to pull the underbelly and run a new line.
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03-04-2021, 12:17 AM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Billings
Posts: 22
Montana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlpatte
New to the forum. Just purchased a used 2018 Voltage 3005 toy hauler at the end of 2020 and absolutely love it. Unfortunately it does not have the leveling system. I knew I wanted a 3005, and I wanted the leveling system but a) the 3005's are not easy to come by - in my approx. 1 year search I only found a handful for sale, and b) the ones that did have the leveling system had not been well maintained. The one we eventually bought looks like it just came off the showroom - inside and out. With all that being said I figured I'd just get the leveling system installed. The one Dutchmen dealer in the area (Houston) quoted me $10K, though, for purchase and installation of a hydraulic system. The system itself is ~$5K - give or take - but I told them I thought $5K for installation was high. They told me they'd have to get into the underbelly to run the hydraulic lines and other things that make it really "hard", as they said.
This seems crazy, especially sine other posts I've seen were quoting more like $2K for installation. Does this seem reasonable to anyone and, if not, are there any alternatives you can recommend? I've also called the local Camping World to see what they'd do - twice - but they always tell me they'll have to have a service manager call me back, and they never do.
Any help/guidance would be greatly appreciated. We really love this unit but I do really want the auto-leveling system. We don't do anything crazy with this but we do "boondock"/dry camp and being able to easily level out in a field in the forest would just be icing on the cake.
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On my previous trailer I installed the 6 point lippert electric leveling system, it worked OK but I would have rather had Hydraulic. Installation for electric wasn’t as intensive as hydraulic, but Ben so I would say 5k for install is a little high, that is about what my dealer quoted me, which is why I did it myself
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03-04-2021, 03:59 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Calabasas
Posts: 785
California
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Another crazy idea is maybe try and trade this one on a new one with the hydraulics in the future. If you do find a used one eventually that has it I bet it will be nominally more expensive.
The other challenge of installing after the fact is if there is a problem I could see the installer blaming the system and the manufacturer blaming the installer. That could be bad.
Obviously, with enough money and time you can do anything but at some point the cost is hard to justify.
I agree the idea of trying to manually level this big trailer would not be fun but $10k is a big number. Maybe you tough it out for a year and trade in then. It will stink just wasting the sales tax on such a short ownership period but might be worth it.
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2018 Voltage 3305
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03-04-2021, 04:51 AM
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#12
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New Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Reno
Posts: 8
Nevada
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Look into the Bigfoot levelers. They’re basically made to put on a finished trailer as aftermarket and will be leaps and bounds better than lippert electric. I have the electric ones and have been seriously contemplating doing a conversion to the Bigfoot system
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03-05-2021, 04:10 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Clancy
Posts: 74
Montana
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"The one Dutchmen dealer in the area (Houston) quoted me $10K, though, for purchase and installation of a hydraulic system. The system itself is ~$5K - give or take - but I told them I thought $5K for installation was high. "
I"m sure you guys got bigger rigs than mine, but I'll stick to a couple of bags of Lynx levelers and the Lippert electric jacks (not levelers) that came on mine. At worst if I have to replace, they are 439 and I can do the job myself...
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