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Old 03-30-2014, 12:22 PM   #1
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Duct work

Well, I removed the panels in the storage area to install my surge protector and I found a black box just laying there next to the furnace and on top of the duct work. At first I had no idea what this box was. I pulled it out and it had a cord attached to it going to a 110 plug. Hmmm….. Looks like the powered sub-woofer. Wow! what a way to install it. They just threw it in to allow it to bounce around and damage all the duct work from the furnace. Here are a few pics.

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Two of the dots were smashed and completely torn. I ended up replacing them both using adjustable elbows and new vent pipe.

I also found that the central vac unit was not secured at all. They did not clean anything before closing it up.

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Needless to say I am relocating the subwoofer, probably going to mount it above the central vac box with a piece of plywood under it.

We spend a lot of money on these units to have to replace components before we even use the unit. I am really wondering what else I would find if I started pulling walls down!
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:56 PM   #2
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You will be amazed at what the challenged installers do to these high priced experiments. I give them credit though, with the crap work they do they still sleep at night, I couldn't. I'd go pick $hip with the chickens before I could let myself do what they let pass as craftmanship.
Keep looking, you will wonder................
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Old 03-30-2014, 03:12 PM   #3
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I hear you Moto. I got away from Keystone products to buy one of these because I thought the "quality" would be better. LOL!
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:43 PM   #4
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Went to re-install the subwoofer and looked at the bottom and found this.
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The furnace had only been run to test it. I would hate to see what might of happened if we actually used the unit to attempt to heat the Coach!

The whole base was melted and it does not work. I am assuming it over heated is why it will not turn on. Noticed they also have water lines and electrical wires run right up against the pipes as well.

I would Highly recommend if you get a new unit that you at least open up the panels in the storage area to at least see what you have!
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Old 03-30-2014, 11:06 PM   #5
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Having taken down the pass through wall yesterday myself to re-tape the furnace ducts, I know what you mean. At least my sub is somewhat secured with a single angle bracket and one screw. That will be fixed the next time I take the walls down as I plan to clean up the cables some. The amount of trash and sawdust was disappointing. Also the way they mount in the converter/charger you can't get to the button on the front panel to initiate a bulk charge, not to mention the ~15 feet of cable between it and the battery bank.

I do believe I'll be cleaning up and relocating most of what's behind that wall. I'm contemplating on adding a powered 50 amp cord reel behind that wall and removing the exterior plug for an access door, and installing a surge protector while I'm at it, I'll most likely add that to the project list when I install the solar kit I have on order.

I did finish up all the ac and furnace duct re-tapeing this weekend as well as installing the 5X5" vinyl fence post's for the stinky slinkies.

Just like the house every time I start on a project I find 10 more to do. It never ends
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:13 AM   #6
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Wow that is scary looking, been too busy at work to even use camper, but the next free weekend will definitely look behind those panels.
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:59 AM   #7
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Thanks for sharing. I have to replace a water pump in the next day or so that only lasted a week before failing. Will be interesting as to what I find behind the wall... I hope Dutchman is paying attention to these post's before someone gets hurt due to their poor workmanship. Do you hear us Dutchman. ?..
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:21 PM   #8
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I hope Dutchman is paying attention to these post's before someone gets hurt due to their poor workmanship. Do you hear us Dutchman. ?..

Slim, those of us that have been here awhile have been shouting for the manufacture to hear us, guess what, apparently they aren't listening or looking.
There was a member that was supposed to be connected with the problem solvers but I think the problems were overwhelming or just ignored.
We don't have the fancy showroom floor videos that show you how to repair your slides or change your pump but we do have people that are willing to lend a hand when needed.
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Old 03-31-2014, 05:24 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by sundancer 87 View Post
I hope Dutchman is paying attention to these post's before someone gets hurt due to their poor workmanship. Do you hear us Dutchman. ?..

Slim, those of us that have been here awhile have been shouting for the manufacture to hear us, guess what, apparently they aren't listening or looking.
There was a member that was supposed to be connected with the problem solvers but I think the problems were overwhelming or just ignored.
We don't have the fancy showroom floor videos that show you how to repair your slides or change your pump but we do have people that are willing to lend a hand when needed.
Oh ya, Dutchmen is lurking amongst us. I had some very negative things to say about Dutchmen's response or lack of response to warranty issues on this forum.

I got a response (through email) immediately the next day trying to say that the he had contacted me. I said, 'sure you contacted me you never followed through'.

I'm sure his bosses (from Keystone) were on him about his lack of customer service skills. Let alone his lack of skills.

If Dutchmen builders don't care to clean up the sawdust after themselves, they certainly don't give a darn about what they haven't built correctly behind the walls and ceilings........just sayin'.
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:17 PM   #10
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This is a scary discussion on the quality (or lack thereof) of the Dutchmen line. I ordered a 2014 Voltage 3605 a month ago and will arrive at my dealer April 15.
I am beginning to wonder if I should go a different route.
All the appealing "eye candy" in the common public area doesn't mean crap if the hidden areas are poor workmanship and quality.

Just a thought...anybody from Dutchmen listening? You are about to lose a sale....
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:26 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Alsdas88 View Post
This is a scary discussion on the quality (or lack thereof) of the Dutchmen line. I ordered a 2014 Voltage 3605 a month ago and will arrive at my dealer April 15.
I am beginning to wonder if I should go a different route.
All the appealing "eye candy" in the common public area doesn't mean crap if the hidden areas are poor workmanship and quality.

Just a thought...anybody from Dutchmen listening? You are about to lose a sale....
Don't let these photo's and stories scare you off. At the end of the day Dutchmen is still a Thor product, so you can expect similar results no matter what brand you go with.

I personally love my voltage and spent two years researching different TH manufactures. In the end I liked the Voltage the best. It drives my wife nutz as I always tend to take apart the things I buy to improve them
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:34 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Alsdas88 View Post
This is a scary discussion on the quality (or lack thereof) of the Dutchmen line. I ordered a 2014 Voltage 3605 a month ago and will arrive at my dealer April 15.
I am beginning to wonder if I should go a different route.
All the appealing "eye candy" in the common public area doesn't mean crap if the hidden areas are poor workmanship and quality.

Just a thought...anybody from Dutchmen listening? You are about to lose a sale....
It's not just Dutchman. All of them have their issues. Some more than others.

Mine had a few minor problems here and there not caused by me. While I shouldn't have to go behind them and repair these items, once completed I have one of the best looking campers at the campground. If I had more catastrophic issues I might look at if differently.
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:41 PM   #13
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I do appreciate your insight and your experiences. We have been looking and researching over 2 years before we decided on the Voltage 3605. We try to make very informed decisions and I am a strong mechanical based person, so the minor things that will go wrong do not worry me. However, when I see melted speaker panels, dirt and sawdust accumulations, damaged duct work, poorly installed sink drain plumbing, pictures of orange soda cans behind the sink cabinet where the damaged drain pipe was installed, etc etc, it makes me think again. This forum has been a wealth of information, both bad and good, but where is the quality control and workmanship? Yes, this is in the Thor product chain, but that is paperwork, not in practice.

I don't want to be stuck with a POS, so I have already warned my dealer that my acceptance inspection will be a long a detailed inspection.
I am already concerned as they have just told me that they will "try" to accommodate me by providing a city water connection.

Not a good start.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsdas88 View Post
I do appreciate your insight and your experiences. We have been looking and researching over 2 years before we decided on the Voltage 3605. We try to make very informed decisions and I am a strong mechanical based person, so the minor things that will go wrong do not worry me. However, when I see melted speaker panels, dirt and sawdust accumulations, damaged duct work, poorly installed sink drain plumbing, pictures of orange soda cans behind the sink cabinet where the damaged drain pipe was installed, etc etc, it makes me think again. This forum has been a wealth of information, both bad and good, but where is the quality control and workmanship? Yes, this is in the Thor product chain, but that is paperwork, not in practice.

I don't want to be stuck with a POS, so I have already warned my dealer that my acceptance inspection will be a long a detailed inspection.
I am already concerned as they have just told me that they will "try" to accommodate me by providing a city water connection.

Not a good start.
Sorry if this is off topic. But it goes along with bad duct work.

If it is at all possible. Make them get you connected to shore power. Live in the trailer on there lot for at least two nights. Operate everything numerous times. Run 2 AC's with the generator. Run the microwave. Run the generator some more. Make use the refrigerator runs on AC, propane and works in Auto mode. Run the slides in and out a dozen times, use the jacks, open and close every drawer (they have the wrong screws in the drawer catches and some will break). Bring a DVD and see it you have sound. Run the Dirt Devil. Run the AC and try to get the trailer morgue temperaure. Run the Heater. If it's cold where you are run the heater and see if you can get it hot. Bring a step ladder with you so when running the AC you can put your hand up at the AC ducts to see how they are blowing. If you have a Kestrel Meter Amazon.com: Kestrel 2000 Pocket Thermo Wind Meter: Sports & Outdoors bring it. A temp gun is OK but a wind meter is better. I messure my air air flow with mine along with a lot of other stuff. On an 85 degree day I get 15 mph of air flow at 45 degrees with a wind chill of 34 degrees. Open and close the window making sure they don't hang up. Always have the slider side windows closed before closing slide or you will break one. Have the dealer open up the area where your converter, heater ducting and water pump are. Operate you San-T-Flush. Run all the sinks, toilets outside water. Make sure you have a dump station available. See if you can actually fill you fresh water all the way and use the pump. Extend your awnings. Check all the screws in the Schwintec slide rails. Check your tire pressures. Mine had one low tire. They aired it up and before I left the lot it was low again. Pin hole in the tire, they took a wheel and tire off another unit. Drop you patio/ramp door screen and see if it stays shut and does not come out of the channels. Look under at the belly pan and see how many fast taps may have been broke. Check you propane tank tie straps. Check any bolt you can see. Bring ten gallons of gasoline and put 5 in each gas tank to see if your gauges work. Take a magnet to the screws in your shower. They are steel and WILL rust. Make them replace the darn things, not you. Check your vent covers for cracks and screen doors for holes or tears. See if you can live with the mattress they have in there. They will work like mad to get all that stuff fixed before you leave. After you leave you are just another jerk with problems.

Other members should have other stuff for you to check. Seriously, you want to get any problems fixed BEFORE you leave the lot.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:18 PM   #15
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Ya, I had the same experience at the dealer in Indiana on 3/20/12.

I was suppose to be able to be set up with 50amp and city water to run everything and stay at the dealership overnight. Apparently, its a Dutchmen/dealer thing that we couldn't stay there that night. It was 87 degrees two years when I took delivery. They didn't want me to stay the night we would have been questioning the warm air from the air conditioner. They came up with BS reasons of why we couldn't stay. No 50 amp, no water supply. That should have been my don't buy this indicator.

I've got too many issues that had to be taken care of to list here. My past threads show my frustrations. My DW and I love the look and floor plan of our unit. I have fixed all the issues no thanks to the Dutchmen IDIOTS.


Now, I can finally start installing the creature comforts that I should have been able to concentrate on when I purchased my trailer two years ago.
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:07 AM   #16
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Other members should have other stuff for you to check. Seriously, you want to get any problems fixed BEFORE you leave the lot.
Amen and AMEN!

Take Arlan's advice seriously. You won't regret it.
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Old 04-01-2014, 03:50 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Infinityrver View Post
Ya, I had the same experience at the dealer in Indiana on 3/20/12.

I was suppose to be able to be set up with 50amp and city water to run everything and stay at the dealership overnight. Apparently, its a Dutchmen/dealer thing that we couldn't stay there that night. It was 87 degrees two years when I took delivery. They didn't want me to stay the night we would have been questioning the warm air from the air conditioner. They came up with BS reasons of why we couldn't stay. No 50 amp, no water supply. That should have been my don't buy this indicator.

I've got too many issues that had to be taken care of to list here. My past threads show my frustrations. My DW and I love the look and floor plan of our unit. I have fixed all the issues no thanks to the Dutchmen IDIOTS.


Now, I can finally start installing the creature comforts that I should have been able to concentrate on when I purchased my trailer two years ago.

I am afraid Dutchmen must look to the lower quality dealers to sell their products. Not only will my dealer NOT allow me to camp overnight at their location, they do not have the 3 services needed to properly inspect the RV before delivery. (50amp, sewer, water).

When I started with this dealer last year, they stated I would receive a complementary 30 night stay at a local camp ground where I could vet my unit out and they would be nearby to assist with any problems. I ordered my 3605 and guess what, they do not offer that any longer.

I am sure there are better dealers to go to, but in the mid-atlantic region, there is only one Dutchmen dealer (with 3 locations to serve).
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Old 04-01-2014, 03:55 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by arlan in arizona View Post
Sorry if this is off topic. But it goes along with bad duct work.

If it is at all possible. Make them get you connected to shore power. Live in the trailer on there lot for at least two nights. Operate everything numerous times. Run 2 AC's with the generator. Run the microwave. Run the generator some more. Make use the refrigerator runs on AC, propane and works in Auto mode. Run the slides in and out a dozen times, use the jacks, open and close every drawer (they have the wrong screws in the drawer catches and some will break). Bring a DVD and see it you have sound. Run the Dirt Devil. Run the AC and try to get the trailer morgue temperaure. Run the Heater. If it's cold where you are run the heater and see if you can get it hot. Bring a step ladder with you so when running the AC you can put your hand up at the AC ducts to see how they are blowing. If you have a Kestrel Meter Amazon.com: Kestrel 2000 Pocket Thermo Wind Meter: Sports & Outdoors bring it. A temp gun is OK but a wind meter is better. I messure my air air flow with mine along with a lot of other stuff. On an 85 degree day I get 15 mph of air flow at 45 degrees with a wind chill of 34 degrees. Open and close the window making sure they don't hang up. Always have the slider side windows closed before closing slide or you will break one. Have the dealer open up the area where your converter, heater ducting and water pump are. Operate you San-T-Flush. Run all the sinks, toilets outside water. Make sure you have a dump station available. See if you can actually fill you fresh water all the way and use the pump. Extend your awnings. Check all the screws in the Schwintec slide rails. Check your tire pressures. Mine had one low tire. They aired it up and before I left the lot it was low again. Pin hole in the tire, they took a wheel and tire off another unit. Drop you patio/ramp door screen and see if it stays shut and does not come out of the channels. Look under at the belly pan and see how many fast taps may have been broke. Check you propane tank tie straps. Check any bolt you can see. Bring ten gallons of gasoline and put 5 in each gas tank to see if your gauges work. Take a magnet to the screws in your shower. They are steel and WILL rust. Make them replace the darn things, not you. Check your vent covers for cracks and screen doors for holes or tears. See if you can live with the mattress they have in there. They will work like mad to get all that stuff fixed before you leave. After you leave you are just another jerk with problems.

Other members should have other stuff for you to check. Seriously, you want to get any problems fixed BEFORE you leave the lot.

Many thank you's Arlan.

Arizona is home, and even though I am "stuck" in Maryland due to my work, I will be heading that direction soon. I have printed your checklist and will be a pain in the arse to my dealer when it comes to accepting this unit. I will leave it up to them to figure out how to provide the 50amp/sewer/water as they do not offer those services nor do they "allow" over night camping at their facility. So once again, I am going to force them to assist properly or they have lost a sale and I will go elsewhere.
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:36 PM   #19
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The wife and I just sold our Eclipse Attitude to upgrade. We looked at every brand. We narrowed it down to Voltage and Momentum. What I found in all the research, consistently, is there is no consistency with the plethora of problems or lack of problems... Every unit seems to have its own set of issues, if any. I guess it boils down to who called out sick at the factory that day. I did find that Voltage did have issues with some units, and not with other units... But on units this size, and with all the associated mechanical parts, there are bound to be a few little nuisances. I hope that is all we find, little ones. Someone on another thread said its frustrating to purchase an RV in good faith of operation and be severely disappointed. I agree with the fact of paying this much for a RV should have more consistency. I would be guessing at the defect percentage, but I see a lot of these on the road, and people don't normally report how great their rig is performing as perfection is the expected normal. So, ill play the odds. I have faith!
BTW, WE did end up buying a Voltage 3895... That's why I'm on these forums now.

if this wasn't a ramble about nothing... I don't know what is!
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:57 AM   #20
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Welcome to the forum hollandazz. We've had our 3895 for a year full timing with no major issues. Im sure its just a matter of time. Enjoy!!!
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