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Old 05-02-2015, 05:50 PM   #1
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Holding Tanks

First night out in our new 3990. Happily, no issues other than a headache from some bad campground water (LOL). My question is if I have three gauges; kitchen gray, bath gray, and black, that means I have three holding tanks, right? Also can someone tell me if both bath sinks go into the same gray along with the shower and that both toilets go to the same black, leaving the kitchen sink with it's own gray? Thanks.
Rusty
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Old 05-02-2015, 07:21 PM   #2
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In my 3895, which is similar to a 3990, I have 2 black & 2 gray tanks. The pulls for the front bath gray that drains the shower and front bath sink & the front black toilet are in the UDC basement access. The rear gray pull is under the frame above the front bayonet that drains the front black and both the gray tanks. The rear bath black pull is under the frame above the rear bayonet behind the tires that drains the rear bath black tank.

On the monitor panel there are two sets of gray level display lights but only one set for the black tank. Below the level display is a switch to flip between checking the display for the front or rear black tank.

I assume the rear bath & kitchen sinks (and washer) drain into the rear gray, but I have read on some models both the rear bath toilet & sink drain into the rear black.

One day I'll use different colored sani packs to test.

What did you mix in that water???
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Old 05-02-2015, 08:02 PM   #3
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Easiest method I have found to find out what goes where is to empty all the tanks. Then use a single sink or toilet at a time and let it run for a bit then pull the dump valves one at a time until I get liquid. Having a clear elbow/connector at the dump outlet helps. I have had a couple of campers where the toilet and the vanity sink used the black tank, while the kitchen sink and the shower used the gray. And I have even had some older ones that didn't even have a gray tank.

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Old 05-02-2015, 10:16 PM   #4
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lcv800, which campground are you at this weekend? Ours is at General getting warranty work done while i chomp at the bit!!! Need to know when to bring bottled water!!! hahaha
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Old 05-03-2015, 12:19 AM   #5
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I would guess a 3990 is very much like a 3800. 160 gallons freshwater capacity, 96 grey water and 96 black water.

There is a 48 gallon grey water on the Driver's side and a 48 gallon black water tank of the Passenger side. Where the 3" drain piping comes out through the belly covering is just about 8" to the rear of the drain end of the two tanks. The grey water tank handles the main bath sink and shower. The black water tank handles the main bath toilet.

If you look underneath the trailer, you will see there is a 2" line connecting to the 3" drain line. Where that 2" comes through the belly covering is as the center of the rear 48 gallon grey water tank that handles the kitchen and the rear bath sink.

The rear 48 gallon black water tank handles just the garage bath toilet. The toilet flushes straight down into the tank. Where the 3" drain line comes through the belly covering is about 8" to the rear of the end of the black water tank.

I believe the HornedToad is correct on the level indicators for the tanks. With tanks this large, certainly the grey water tanks get full a whole lot faster than the black water tanks.

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Old 05-03-2015, 12:56 AM   #6
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As an aside, it makes you wonder how the industry evolved into gray and black tanks. They all end up in the same sewer. I've never seen a "gray water only" dump. I have seen a setup where the RV takes gray water from the gray tank, and pumps it to the toilet, thus becoming black water, and into the black tank. Novel idea, but I don't want to see soapy water coming from the toilet flush. (maybe not a bad idea?) So, in a cost-saving move, what would be the downside to all sewers going into one, two, or three "black" tanks? Opinions?
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Old 05-03-2015, 01:05 AM   #7
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Marty,

Reading your post...makes me wonder...

With my, oh so much better half along, the grey water fills up faster.

So a part of me also wonders if they aren't separate because in dry camping areas you can dump your grey water on the ground with very little impact. Black water is a different matter. So keeping them separate makes for the ability to stay out longer without having to go find a dump station?

I have read in the media lately that there are places beginning to consider letting homeowners separate their grey and black water and use the grey for watering lawns, washing cars and driveways, etc. A good idea a very long time coming!!

Thoughts?

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Old 05-03-2015, 01:19 AM   #8
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I have read in the media lately that there are places beginning to consider letting homeowners separate their grey and black water and use the grey for watering lawns, washing cars and driveways, etc. A good idea a very long time coming!!

Thoughts?

Pirate
Hmm, seems like we've opened up a lot of issues, and a lot of possibilities. I think gray water is good for sewers and septic systems, in that it keeps things well-flushed. I am reminded of stories in "yuppie" neighborhoods where everyone got a low-water toilet. As a result, the city sewer clogged up with solids that weren't being washed away.
On the other hand, watering grass is a good idea. Ends up going the same place as the septic tank, except through the grass on the way down!
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Old 05-03-2015, 01:51 AM   #9
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As an aside, it makes you wonder how the industry evolved into gray and black tanks. They all end up in the same sewer. I've never seen a "gray water only" dump. I have seen a setup where the RV takes gray water from the gray tank, and pumps it to the toilet, thus becoming black water, and into the black tank. Novel idea, but I don't want to see soapy water coming from the toilet flush. (maybe not a bad idea?) So, in a cost-saving move, what would be the downside to all sewers going into one, two, or three "black" tanks? Opinions?
1974 EPA regulations made it illegal to dump grey water on the ground, apparently not enforced in all areas. Gray water tanks became mandatory on RV's with the 1975 model year, not sure when black tanks were mandatory.

I looked at putting a grey water system in my house, to be used to flush toilets and water the garden, local Health Department won't allow it, hell they wouldn't allow me to collect rain water in a cistern either. I have had a bunch of other issues with them too.

Come camp at my house and gray water goes into the garden or down towards the fruit orchard.

I have actually seen some 50's vintage Airstreams that didn't have holding tanks, the toilet had a straight pipe to the ground, you were supposed to dig a hole and position the trailer over the dump hole, grey water was dumped on the ground. When you left the camp you were supposed to the fill the hole back in.

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Old 05-03-2015, 03:05 AM   #10
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Marty & Aaron,

Well...an interesting subject eh?

One of the reasons I picked a Voltage Epic was the large fresh water capacity and the 96 gallon grey and black water systems. With that much...I would figure we could go nearly a week boon-docking with no problems.

I have a friend that bought a Trail Manor pop-up trailer, 29 foot and the grey and black water combined were about the size of one of the Epic grey or black water tanks. Couldn't be out more than a day without a dump station. Ridiculous!!

Hope we answered the OP questions tho...

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Old 05-03-2015, 03:27 AM   #11
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Looking back at the 70's, and remembering my Fr-in-law's Shasta, it of course didn't have a toilet. We have a campground here with 20 amp only outlets, and water, no sewer. It was designed back in that era. The cold-water sink just emptied via a garden hose connection to the ground or catch bucket. (Aaron, that Park-the-toilet-over-the-hole story is wild! Then again, when I was a kid in the late 50's, the toilet in the train was an open hole to the railroad ties flashing by) This local campground has a lot of toilets and showers. Guess that was the design back then. If you had a toilet, you had a black tank, i.e. you had to, unless you parked over the hole. Gray tanks evolved because of EPA in 1974. But my point is still valid, we are living with two separate tank systems that go, ultimately, in one place. For better or worse, I believe some RV mfgr will see a cost saving opportunity, and just install one large (black) "sewer" tank.
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Old 05-03-2015, 07:07 AM   #12
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Marty,

It will be interesting to see where regulation and the RV industry go in the future. A lot to consider, and a lot to address!!

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Old 05-03-2015, 11:37 AM   #13
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Easiest method I have found to find out what goes where is to empty all the tanks. Then use a single sink or toilet at a time and let it run for a bit then pull the dump valves one at a time until I get liquid. Having a clear elbow/connector at the dump outlet helps. I have had a couple of campers where the toilet and the vanity sink used the black tank, while the kitchen sink and the shower used the gray. And I have even had some older ones that didn't even have a gray tank.

Aaron
As always, an excellent idea Aaron. Thanks,
Rusty
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Old 05-03-2015, 11:46 AM   #14
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Holding tanks

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In my 3895, which is similar to a 3990, I have 2 black & 2 gray tanks. The pulls for the front bath gray that drains the shower and front bath sink & the front black toilet are in the UDC basement access. The rear gray pull is under the frame above the front bayonet that drains the front black and both the gray tanks. The rear bath black pull is under the frame above the rear bayonet behind the tires that drains the rear bath black tank.

On the monitor panel there are two sets of gray level display lights but only one set for the black tank. Below the level display is a switch to flip between checking the display for the front or rear black tank.

I assume the rear bath & kitchen sinks (and washer) drain into the rear gray, but I have read on some models both the rear bath toilet & sink drain into the rear black.

One day I'll use different colored sani packs to test.

What did you mix in that water???
Must be different, as a I don't have a switch in my control panel to toggle between black water tanks. Aaron had a good idea of running water out of each spigot/toilet one at a time and pulling the valves similarly. Time consuming but then I'll know exactly what source goes to what tank. Thanks.
Rusty
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Old 05-03-2015, 11:55 AM   #15
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Marty & Aaron,

Well...an interesting subject eh?

One of the reasons I picked a Voltage Epic was the large fresh water capacity tand the 96 gallon grey and black water systems. With that much...I would figure we could go nearly a week boon-docking with no problems.

I have a friend that bought a Trail Manor pop-up trailer, 29 foot and the grey and black water combined were about the size of one of the Epic grey or black water tanks. Couldn't be out more than a day without a dump station. Ridiculous!!

Hope we answered the OP questions tho...

Pirate
TrailManors are interesting beasts, I have come close to buying one a couple of times. I know where there is one sitting in a barn, but the lady isn't quite ready to sell. I have first dibs on it.

They actually have a grey tank and the toilet is a recirculating type.

Some of the better designed trailers where they have figured out the tankage will have grey water tanks that are as large or larger than the fresh water with the black tank being about half the size of the grey, which IMHO is the way it should be. FWIW the Lance we are considering has 45 gallons of fresh, 45 gallons of black and 90 gallons of grey water capacity. In reality it is dumb luck on that model.

In my experience I have found 30-40 gallons to be about the maximum I want for a black tank. Gray could be 500 gallons and not be large enough sometimes.

Aaron
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:29 PM   #16
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both toilets go to the same black???

If you have two toilets, you most likely have two black tanks.

Remember the third plumbers rule... it don't run uphill!!!
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Old 05-04-2015, 01:40 PM   #17
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Then again, when I was a kid in the late 50's, the toilet in the train was an open hole to the railroad ties flashing by)
Oh my gosh! I remember those on a train my family took to the 1964 NYC World's Fair.
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Old 05-05-2015, 10:56 AM   #18
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Well, did my first tank dump on the 3990. Not as bad as I thought it would be. I didn't have the time to do the "Sani-Flush" thing. Is that just a sprayer in the top of the tank to rinse residue, and should it be done every flush? Also discovered that there are four valves, meaning I must have four holding tanks, and only three gauges on my control panel. Does that make sense? I also need to extend the sewer hose holder under my unit like most of you have already done, as it isn't long enough to hold my 15' hose. All in all a successful weekend. No major issues discovered.
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Old 05-05-2015, 02:15 PM   #19
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Icv,

I hook a hose to the "spinner" in the black tanks before draining. Then as the content starts to slow...then turn the water on to the spinner and let it rinse the tank while there is still enough liquid in it to keep things moving. Then let it run for another couple of minutes.

That's one thing I really like about the Sewer Solution set-up available from Valterra. You have a clear plastic section to be able to see how much is draining. And you have a water jet that you can point up the piping to rinse it as well.

If you use "standard" drain hose, I have seen a clear section you can connect to the drain pipe and your hose to it. That would be very helpful as you use the spinner to rinse the tank.

Yup, if you've got a 3990, you've got four tanks. I don't bother with the gauges, they're typically about as inaccurate as can be.

I get set up, connect the Sewer Solution to the front connection, which drains the front grey and black and the rear grey tanks.

My 3800 has too short of a tube for the 15 foot hose I carry along for what reason I dunno. But would like to know the materials needed to make the extension.

Glad you had a good "break-in" trip!

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Old 05-05-2015, 02:30 PM   #20
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Icv,

I hook a hose to the "spinner" in the black tanks before draining. Then as the content starts to slow...then turn the water on to the spinner and let it rinse the tank while there is still enough liquid in it to keep things moving. Then let it run for another couple of minutes.

That's one thing I really like about the Sewer Solution set-up available from Valterra. You have a clear plastic section to be able to see how much is draining. And you have a water jet that you can point up the piping to rinse it as well.

If you use "standard" drain hose, I have seen a clear section you can connect to the drain pipe and your hose to it. That would be very helpful as you use the spinner to rinse the tank.

Yup, if you've got a 3990, you've got four tanks. I don't bother with the gauges, they're typically about as inaccurate as can be.

I get set up, connect the Sewer Solution to the front connection, which drains the front grey and black and the rear grey tanks.

My 3800 has too short of a tube for the 15 foot hose I carry along for what reason I dunno. But would like to know the materials needed to make the extension.

Glad you had a good "break-in" trip!

Pirate
What are you wanting to extend? The Sewer Solution uses standard PVC fittings (have to check the size but think they are 1") I have 30' of rigid pipe and several fittings that I just slip together that we use at home for pump outs when people visit or I need to dump my tanks. I have a septic system and tap in to the clean out right by the house, it is a couple of feet higher than where I park the camper, the Sewer Solution makes it a breeze.

Aaron
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