Low water pressure

[Pirate]

Guess I'm not familiar with the plumbing...never had problems 'til now...where do the City water and "pump" water come together?

Seems I do remember on our first Toyhauler there was a check valve...

Hmm...have to do some looking...

Suggestions on pump?

Thanks,

Pirate

[wildwest450]

I know in our rig, when you're hooked to city water the pump will not operate. My pump is no where near the city water hookup. It's close to the hot water tank. Perhaps voltages have "helper" pumps or something fancy like that.


.

[MartyG]

Originally Posted by Pirate

Guess I'm not familiar with the plumbing...never had problems 'til now...where do the City water and "pump" water come together?

Seems I do remember on our first Toyhauler there was a check valve...

Hmm...have to do some looking...

Suggestions on pump?

Thanks,

Pirate

Think of the cold water system as the blue line. In many cases it is in fact, blue pex piping. Somewhere on that line is the input from the city water. Somewhere else on that line the water pump output comes to the line. The two may or may not be in the same vicinity. There is not always a Tee. Did you find the pump?

[Pirate]

No, Voltages don't have a "helper" pump.

When on city water, its the city water that provides the pressure.

When operating off the fresh water storage tank on board, its the pump that provides water flow and pressure throughout the trailer.

My problem is that when on the fresh water tank and pump...it makes for a pretty poor shower. So trying to figure out how to troubleshoot the problem.

One thing is to inspect the pump for filter screens that may be plugged with debris or minerals in the water.

But somewhere the City water and the pump discharge come together. More than likely there are check valves so that City water doesn't try to spin the pump backwards or that the pump discharge doesn't blow water out in to the wet cabinet.

So before I disconnect the pump inlet and discharge hoses, I need to make sure the City water isn't going to blow in my face and make a mess in the basement of the trailer.

So perhaps as a safety precaution I should close the hydrant valve for City water, open a faucet to bleed of the pressure...and then remove the pump hoses.

Make a bit of sense?

Pirate

[07dmax360]

I would really look at your screens at each faucet for shaving build up, my water taps would all come on strong then fade out to a dribble. I pulled all the screens, and to my amazement, just a few shavings were enough to slow the flow down, so much that the pump would cycle on and off and on and off while filling the sink, this told me there was a restriction. Every post I've ever read on poor water flow or pressure ended up being restricted aerators on the taps. Really give it a good looking over. you might be surprised at what you find

[sundancer 87]

The city water can't spin the pump, won't happen because the pump has the diaphragms and valves. Any city water entering the pump housing will only pass through whatever valve is open. I'm familiar with how the diaphragms and valves work together, almost like the human heart valves. It's not complicated but is hard to describe. The best explanation is found by disassembly and study of the pump.
With that being said I think the city water will flow through the pump but a one way valve on the output side of the pump will prevent the pump from back flowing into the city water circuit.
There will be some water loss when you disconnect the water lines. Very little pressure should be there if the city connection isn't connected. The pump side will probably have some pressure on it but that can be bled off by opening a faucet.
You have the right idea, disconnect city water and bleed the pump.

[sundancer 87]

Originally Posted by 07dmax360

I would really look at your screens at each faucet for shaving build up, my water taps would all come on strong then fade out to a dribble. I pulled all the screens, and to my amazement, just a few shavings were enough to slow the flow down, so much that the pump would cycle on and off and on and off while filling the sink, this told me there was a restriction. Every post I've ever read on poor water flow or pressure ended up being restricted aerators on the taps. Really give it a good looking over. you might be surprised at what you find

I installed a high dollar Delta residential bathroom faucet last month, turned the water on and I was given a dribble from both sides. Having plumbed the faucet from the floor up and knowing I had water pressure before the faucet install I was ready to cut PEX connections and go back to the source.
Then it hit me, clean the screen! As I have mentioned, this was an expensive Delta brand faucet but I'll be damned, the screen was clogged not with PEX cuttings but some sort of natural looking fiber. I had this problem several years ago and the debris looked and smelled like the green stuff from an evergreen tree. It was a Delta brand single valve shower mixer.
I'll still buy Delta, just have to remember to clean the gunk out if necessary.

[Pirate]

Well, guess that means my first step will be checking for the location of screens in the shower and kitchen sink faucet and clean those.

At home have, as you, expensive faucets...but well water has high enough TDS to plug up everything in a couple of months. Struggled with that for a while and then spent the money for a "whole house" Reverse Osmosis system. TDS went from 2900 to 12...no more plugged screens.

Have considered getting a small unit to put between the park hydrant and the trailer. Hmmm...

But thanks for the tip...I will do some checking!

Pirate

[MartyG]

Originally Posted by Pirate

Well, guess that means my first step will be checking for the location of screens in the shower and kitchen sink faucet and clean those.

At home have, as you, expensive faucets...but well water has high enough TDS to plug up everything in a couple of months. Struggled with that for a while and then spent the money for a "whole house" Reverse Osmosis system. TDS went from 2900 to 12...no more plugged screens.

Have considered getting a small unit to put between the park hydrant and the trailer. Hmmm...

But thanks for the tip...I will do some checking!

Pirate

Wow, we had reverse osmosis on a drinking water tap once. I thought that was pricey! I can only imagine running the whole house through RO!

[Pirate]

Marty,

Well, its quite a story. Sent in a well water sample to a national testing lab. Got the results and sent them to an RO system provider. They proposed a system that would provide a "whole house" RO system.

To make wife, er Boss, happy I ordered the proposed system. System showed up as just the components on two pallets delivered by truck. Turned out I'm sure glad I'm an ol' Mechanical Engineer/welder/fabricator with a good friend who's an ace Licensed Plumber!!

I designed stands for each component such that the water was in horizontal flow through the system. Cut the pieces on the PlasmaCam, welded 'em up, painted and bolted to the basement floor.

Bought a 400 gallon storage tank and build a wood stand that put the discharge point horizontal with the inlet of the pump that would now pressurize the house with a pressure tank between the pump discharge and the house.

So about $7500 for the components from vendor, I had all the steel needed for the stands and studs and OSB for the tank stand.

Got it all plumbed up and started up. So with paying the plumber for his time and material, now up to about $9000.

Worked with the RO skid designer/manufacturer to find the system is 5000 gallon per day system. Well, there are two of us and we sure don't use that much water. So we got sold a way oversize system.

But!! Find that the well pump doesn't run but maybe an hour and a half per day. Huh? Well according to the volume of the storage tank, we typically use about 150 gallons of water per day. At most maybe twice that much in the Summer watering a 10'x20' patch of grass, deep watering two trees, and doing laundry.

So the five gallon bucket of anti-Scalant is going to last probably five years. The pH upflow cylinder with gravel and chemical is probably going to last five years.

So there is actually very little cost other than the upfront system cost.

The system makes about what we use, 150 gallons of RO product water in about 35 minutes. The brine goes to the existing basement sump and is pumped to the septic system.

So the well, the RO system skid and the sump pump run at most an hour and fifteen minutes a day. The house pressure pump runs more frequently, but not that often and haven't tried to keep track of how often.
So there seems to be a pretty good savings on electricity with the well pump not running every time a toilet gets flushed, etc.

Wife, er Boss, is thrilled she can use the dishwasher, the glasses come out just sparkling clean no spots. A load in the washing machine now requires a third the detergent and things come out much cleaner.

The toilets, sinks, showers don't have all the mineral build up and the screens on every faucet are back in, doing their job and not getting plugged up all the time.

So my reality is it works just great, the electric bill is down some, and wife, er Boss, is very happy...and that makes for a good life!!!

Pirate

[wildwest450]

Originally Posted by Pirate

No, Voltages don't have a "helper" pump.

When on city water, its the city water that provides the pressure.

When operating off the fresh water storage tank on board, its the pump that provides water flow and pressure throughout the trailer.

Pirate

That's what I thought, in the original post he said he sometimes needed to turn the water pump on to get pressure while hooked to city water, didn't make sense. Maybe my reading comprehension stinks.

[wahoonc]

Was the pump working before? If you have decent flow on city water then the pump is either sucking air, has a blockage or is on it's way to the great beyond. When you buy a new pump get a better one than the stock. Shurflo, FloJet and Aquatec are all good brands look for something with higher pressure than the stock POS. Also look for a 5 chamber pump. I would expect to spend ~$200 for a decent pump, possibly a bit less. Also look for an inline trash filter between the pump and the tank. Good possibility it is plugged up too.

I filter ALL water that goes into my camper, whether it goes in via the city water connection or into the fresh water tank.

Just as an interesting side note, we actually have 4 water systems at home, well water, city water, rain water storage and gray water. The county is pissed about the rain water cistern and don't know about the gray water.

Aaron

[Pirate]

dawniewest, yup your reading comprehension was out of whack.

Aaron, I'm not sure either of us has taken a shower when we're on fresh water in the tank using the pump. But if one of us did...its only been once. So I have some diagnostic research to do.

You're in a good place with four water sources. Our place is 94 acres about 3 miles North of town. No city water, no natural gas, no cable and no phone. So the well is our only source of water. I do have four southwestern style rain barrels that catch snow melt of the roof. Did that because the house is southwestern style, has tile roof, and no gutter system. So we catch the snow melt to prevent covering the driveway with ice. Drain them between storms. In Colorado we are not yet legal to separate black and grey water. But there is talk of change coming.

Thanks for the thoughts on pumps! Got any idea what the discharge pressure from the OEM pump is? Or should be?

Pirate

[MartyG]

Wow, I had no idea they even made whole-house systems. Well, you've got clean water for sure! (pun intended!)

[Pirate]

Yeah, but dang it, now I have to dig up an outside hydrant that gets the RO water, then trench on down to the concrete box where the well pressure tank, and line that goes down to my shop building...and connect the RO water there.

Then, two Summers a go ran nearly 1000 feet of 1" PEX from the concrete box down to the lot where I keep the trailers and have two hydrants. Going to "Y" that so that I can have well water there for washing the parking pad, grass fires, etc. Then swap valves, allow the line the flush, and then fill the trailer fresh water tank with RO water.

These last steps will occur in, oh, I dunno, November?

Pirate

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by Pirate

dawniewest, yup your reading comprehension was out of whack.

Aaron, I'm not sure either of us has taken a shower when we're on fresh water in the tank using the pump. But if one of us did...its only been once. So I have some diagnostic research to do.

You're in a good place with four water sources. Our place is 94 acres about 3 miles North of town. No city water, no natural gas, no cable and no phone. So the well is our only source of water. I do have four southwestern style rain barrels that catch snow melt of the roof. Did that because the house is southwestern style, has tile roof, and no gutter system. So we catch the snow melt to prevent covering the driveway with ice. Drain them between storms. In Colorado we are not yet legal to separate black and grey water. But there is talk of change coming.

Thanks for the thoughts on pumps! Got any idea what the discharge pressure from the OEM pump is? Or should be?

Pirate

i would check the data plate on the current pump. If I had to guess I would say 25-35 psi range, I would also look at GPM rates too. The system "should" be able to withstand 45 psi, but I wouldn't bet on it with Dutchmen's track record.

Aquajet makes a really nice variable speed pump. I helped a buddy install one similar to it on a Bluebird Wanderlodge. His old pump had finally worn out after nearly 20 years of service.

Aaron

[Pirate]

The link you posted took me to camping world and a very good design pump. Think I'll go that way!

Thanks,

Pirate

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by Pirate

The link you posted took me to camping world and a very good design pump. Think I'll go that way!

Thanks,

Pirate

Much as I hate CW... Check around for that pump for cheaper, like Amazon!

Aaron

[Pirate]

Thanks for the tip Aaron,

I will do that this evening...8PM...still over 90 degrees here...staying inside with both AC units pumping out cold air!!!

Pirate

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by Pirate

Thanks for the tip Aaron,

I will do that this evening...8PM...still over 90 degrees here...staying inside with both AC units pumping out cold air!!!

Pirate

Thought that was a "dry" heat?

I was in Atlanta earlier today, got the hell outta there before it got hot. I have one job site in the coastal plains of NC where it hit 102° with a heat index of 112° today. I am working my way up the Blue Ridge so it has been a temperate upper 80's low 90's. Currently it is 79° which actually feels pretty good.

Aaron