Greenball Tow-master tire failures - Dutchmen Owners

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Old 09-10-2014, 07:48 PM   #1
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Greenball Tow-master tire failures

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to these forums, but not to RVing. We own a 2005 Dutchmen Denali travel trailer.

We came back from a trip Labor day weekend and blew a tire. After some discussions with other RV owners we know, it seems that there have been a bunch of us who blew tires this past year.

What we are finding is that they are all Greenball Tow-master tires.

So far there are 5 tire failure incidents in the past 1.5 months.

My trailer damage was minimal for body work, but the tire caught the wiring harness in the slideout and wrapped it around the axle. We were under it on the side of Rt 66 cutting it from the axle. Not a good place to be.

Anyhow, I just wanted to put the word out in case anyone is researching tires. These will never be on my RV again.

The tires were put on in April of 2013 and have less than 2K miles on them. Most of the others we talked with had the same scenario, fairly new tires with little wear and they blew.

For those who question the circumstances, we were traviling roughly around 60 MPH on RT 66E in VA, clear skies, it was around 90 deg. Tires had been pressure checked before taking the trailer out. We were approx 45 minutes into our trip.

The trailer is well within the load rating for those tires.

Hopefully this post will keep someone else from having the same troubles we've been experiencing.

Happy Travels
Bonnie
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:37 PM   #2
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Yes you aren't the only one that has had RV tires fail. I had 14 ply USA made Goodyears fail quite a few times on my Teton. Some did little damage others quite a bit. Twice had two fail within ten miles of each other.
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Old 09-10-2014, 10:33 PM   #3
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If you continue to use any ST tire that is made in China, expect many more blow outs. The consensus here, and on other forums, is that Chinese trailer tires are pure junk. The only ST tires that are worth anything are Maxis M8008, which are NOT made in China. Those of us who have made the switch to LT truck tires have put the blow out bug behind us. I use Michelin XPS Rib, 235/85R16. Make the switch.
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Old 09-11-2014, 05:54 AM   #4
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Here we go again!
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Old 09-11-2014, 06:49 PM   #5
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Thanks for the recommendations, azdryheat.

We're most likely pulling the tires and replacing them, even though they have little wear. Such a waste, but I'm convinced if we don't, we're just testing our luck.

B
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:03 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by azdryheat View Post
If you continue to use any ST tire that is made in China, expect many more blow outs. The consensus here, and on other forums, is that Chinese trailer tires are pure junk. The only ST tires that are worth anything are Maxis M8008, which are NOT made in China. Those of us who have made the switch to LT truck tires have put the blow out bug behind us. I use Michelin XPS Rib, 235/85R16. Make the switch.
Maxxis ST tires are made in Thailand. However they are made to a much better standard than anything else on the market. I will have to search for the link, but someone was comparing the weight of them to the Goodyear Marathons and some other tires and they are a couple of pounds heavier and are of much better construction. FWIW GYM tires were being made in China but production of some sizes has been switched back to the USA. Read any RV forum and you will read horror stories of blowouts with just about every brand EXCEPT Maxxis.

What I find interesting is that Maxxis states on their website for trailer tires to not load them over 80% of the load rating.

Most RV manufacturers seem to not allow for that. I know that my 2015 Coleman has a GVW of 3800# allowing for a 15% tongue weight it puts the tires at or very close to the maximum load. Based on the 80% suggestion I shouldn't have more than ~2860# on my tires. Obviously there is a major disconnect somewhere between tire design, testing requirements and reality. I do know that there is a very strong lobby by the tire manufacturers that has kept the DOT regs very weak for ST tires versus passenger car and truck tires.


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Old 09-11-2014, 09:48 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by azdryheat View Post
Those of us who have made the switch to LT truck tires have put the blow out bug behind us. I use Michelin XPS Rib, 235/85R16. Make the switch.
On a three axle trailer that's true. On a two axle 7k lbs rated each trailer, LT truck tires still failed on mine. Once I went to 17.5 my tire problem went away.
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Old 09-12-2014, 08:44 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
Maxxis ST tires are made in Thailand. However they are made to a much better standard than anything else on the market. I will have to search for the link, but someone was comparing the weight of them to the Goodyear Marathons and some other tires and they are a couple of pounds heavier and are of much better construction. FWIW GYM tires were being made in China but production of some sizes has been switched back to the USA. Read any RV forum and you will read horror stories of blowouts with just about every brand EXCEPT Maxxis.

What I find interesting is that Maxxis states on their website for trailer tires to not load them over 80% of the load rating.

Most RV manufacturers seem to not allow for that. I know that my 2015 Coleman has a GVW of 3800# allowing for a 15% tongue weight it puts the tires at or very close to the maximum load. Based on the 80% suggestion I shouldn't have more than ~2860# on my tires. Obviously there is a major disconnect somewhere between tire design, testing requirements and reality. I do know that there is a very strong lobby by the tire manufacturers that has kept the DOT regs very weak for ST tires versus passenger car and truck tires.


Aaron
Aaron, you must have had the good Goodyear Marathons on your Airstream. The US built GYMs had a tendency to blow the sidewall, rather than the tread. It was a rare blowout the would destroy the wheel well or damage the skirt.

I think the disconnect is with the RV manufacturers, install bare minimum tires and let the purchaser worry about them, because their answer is take, "It up with the tire manufacturer".

I certainly see the difference between the OEM Load Range E and the Gladiator Load Range G. The OEM PowerKings were right at their load limit, the Gladiators give me a nice comfortable margin for error.
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Old 09-13-2014, 01:05 AM   #9
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Aaron, you must have had the good Goodyear Marathons on your Airstream. The US built GYMs had a tendency to blow the sidewall, rather than the tread. It was a rare blowout the would destroy the wheel well or damage the skirt.

I think the disconnect is with the RV manufacturers, install bare minimum tires and let the purchaser worry about them, because their answer is take, "It up with the tire manufacturer".

I certainly see the difference between the OEM Load Range E and the Gladiator Load Range G. The OEM PowerKings were right at their load limit, the Gladiators give me a nice comfortable margin for error.
Nope... DelNats and Carlisle. Goodyear got on my **** list a few years back over a bad set of tires on a truck I had.

When the AS hits the road it will be running on Maxxis. One of the things I really like about the 70's vintage AS is the light weight. Mine is a 31' and the GVW is 7200#, my rolling weight was a tad over 6,000# for most trips. I have never managed to load it to the max, even with a full tank of water on board.

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Old 09-15-2014, 03:12 AM   #10
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On a three axle trailer that's true. On a two axle 7k lbs rated each trailer, LT truck tires still failed on mine. Once I went to 17.5 my tire problem went away.
Of course they would fail on a 7,000 pound axle. Most of us have 6,000 pound axles and the LT's are perfect.
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Old 09-15-2014, 04:31 PM   #11
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Of course they would fail on a 7,000 pound axle. Most of us have 6,000 pound axles and the LT's are perfect.

That is my point. When talking about tire problems there is a difference between Voltages that have three axles compared to ones like mine & my Teton that have only two. Three axle trailer are caring more total axle weight than us with two axles. Big thing is we are caring more weight per axle & that's why 17.5 are needed for heavy two axle trailers. I had American made 16" "G" rated tires fail, American made 16" LT tires fail. All were rated for 3600lb or more. Never were any caring more weight than rated for. Once I went to 17.5 my tire problem went away.

I think if you check you will find all Voltages have 7,000lb axles.
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Old 09-16-2014, 01:55 AM   #12
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That is my point. When talking about tire problems there is a difference between Voltages that have three axles compared to ones like mine & my Teton that have only two. Three axle trailer are caring more total axle weight than us with two axles. Big thing is we are caring more weight per axle & that's why 17.5 are needed for heavy two axle trailers. I had American made 16" "G" rated tires fail, American made 16" LT tires fail. All were rated for 3600lb or more. Never were any caring more weight than rated for. Once I went to 17.5 my tire problem went away.

I think if you check you will find all Voltages have 7,000lb axles.
True, my 3600 has three 7,000 pound axles but that is overkill and I can get away with E rated Michelin XPS Ribs, which are far better than the Chinese poppers and cheaper than going with the 17.5's. I figure that my 6 Michelin's are maxed out at 18,252 pounds (3042*6)and that doesn't count the 3,000+ pounds on the pin. The G rated tires are great for the two axle crowd but not needed for three axles.
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:14 PM   #13
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Is it the consensus then, with a triple axle unit there is less of a chance of the China bombs imploding as opposed to a two axle unit with them? That E series are adequate based on the load spread on a unit with three axels?
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:08 PM   #14
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Is it the consensus then, with a triple axle unit there is less of a chance of the China bombs imploding as opposed to a two axle unit with them? That E series are adequate based on the load spread on a unit with three axels?
I don't believe the number of axels has a lot to do with blow outs, three axels just means more weight to spread across the extra axel. My opinion is that the manufacturers put on what ever tire they can get the best deal on and it will be what ever they can make match the weights and we know how creative they get with the numbers.

Go up a load range or two and you will have tires that give you a margin of error and blow outs go away. I went from LR Es to LR Gs, the Gs run cooler and have less sidewall flex, which eliminates the tire squirm.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:25 PM   #15
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I would agree that "E" rated name brand tires should work fine on three axle trailer. For two axle trailers I would highly recommend going to 17.5. "G" rated American Made tires failed on me on my Teton. I will never recommend any brand of 16" tires on a 7000lb rated two axle trailer. I spent more $$ on repairs, frustration, tire changed on the side of the road than I should have. I didn't want to spend the $$ on 17.5 tires & rims. So I spend way more on different 16" tires and repairs to fix the problem. I could have bought 2 sets of 17.5 rims & tires for the $$ I wasted. So I broke down & bought 17.5 & installed them on my Teton. Now those tires & rims are on my Voltage. Had a stress free 4300 mile vacation with no tire failures this year.
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Old 09-17-2014, 03:20 AM   #16
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On my previous 2 axle fifth wheel, I successfully used Michelin LT's. The trailer maxed out at 14,000 with 2,500 on the pin and had 6,000 pound axles. My 4 Michelins were rated to carry 12,168 (4*3042) so I was well within limits.

However, if I had a heavier trailer that used 7,000 pound axles then my Michelins would not work and I would recommend going to a better set up like what DesertRat recommends.
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Old 09-17-2014, 11:25 PM   #17
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I would agree that "E" rated name brand tires should work fine on three axle trailer. For two axle trailers I would highly recommend going to 17.5. "G" rated American Made tires failed on me on my Teton. I will never recommend any brand of 16" tires on a 7000lb rated two axle trailer. I spent more $$ on repairs, frustration, tire changed on the side of the road than I should have. I didn't want to spend the $$ on 17.5 tires & rims. So I spend way more on different 16" tires and repairs to fix the problem. I could have bought 2 sets of 17.5 rims & tires for the $$ I wasted. So I broke down & bought 17.5 & installed them on my Teton. Now those tires & rims are on my Voltage. Had a stress free 4300 mile vacation with no tire failures this year.
DesertRat, would you mind sharing the brands of your wheels and tires as well as where you purchased them?
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:34 AM   #18
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This was a decent article. Link below: Take a few minutes and read if you haven't come across it already. As a former bus owner that had 315x80R 22.5 which are massive tires, I can tell you this. I dont care what you have it can blow period... end of story. I personally have never had a blow out "thank God" but I know soooo many who have. I now have over 4.5k on my G614 goodyears... may blow my next trip dont know... and neither does any one else.... jus sayin.

CHINA BOMBS are a huge risk compared to American made... but nowadays American made dont mean a whole lot either! Michelin bus tires are made in Spain... my last set were.. go figure. In the future, I may try 17.5 wheels and tires but I will never think for a minute my problems are over...



These Darn Trailer Tires!
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Old 09-18-2014, 03:45 AM   #19
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This was a decent article. Link below: Take a few minutes and read if you haven't come across it already. As a former bus owner that had 315x80R 22.5 which are massive tires, I can tell you this. I dont care what you have it can blow period... end of story. I personally have never had a blow out "thank God" but I know soooo many who have. I now have over 4.5k on my G614 goodyears... may blow my next trip dont know... and neither does any one else.... jus sayin.

CHINA BOMBS are a huge risk compared to American made... but nowadays American made dont mean a whole lot either! Michelin bus tires are made in Spain... my last set were.. go figure. In the future, I may try 17.5 wheels and tires but I will never think for a minute my problems are over...



These Darn Trailer Tires!

This article just confirms that problems are caused by misuse of the product and probably more than people admit.
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Old 09-18-2014, 03:59 AM   #20
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This article just confirms that problems are caused by misuse of the product and probably more than people admit.
Amen.... point is, dont let any one lead you into a false sense of security With tires...
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