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Old 09-24-2017, 01:55 PM   #1
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No Hot water (water heater)

Hi, all I have no hot water in my Kodiak 240BHSL. I've tried both the gas and electric.I think I found the problem but wanted to run it by you all.
I have an Atwood 6 Gallon. I first checked all fuses at the panel inside and they are good. Then I went out and checked at the water heater. I found that the "thermal cut off" (I looked it up in the manual) had some black char and the plastic sleeve had melted a bit. I removed it and checked for continuity with my voltmeter and there is none. I'm 99% sure this is my problem but should I check anything else while I'm at it? Could something further down the line have caused this part to fail or is this fairly common? My camper is 4 years old now and see's heavy use.
Thanks,
Randy
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Old 09-24-2017, 03:47 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by rcharrette View Post
Hi, all I have no hot water in my Kodiak 240BHSL. I've tried both the gas and electric.I think I found the problem but wanted to run it by you all.
I have an Atwood 6 Gallon. I first checked all fuses at the panel inside and they are good. Then I went out and checked at the water heater. I found that the "thermal cut off" (I looked it up in the manual) had some black char and the plastic sleeve had melted a bit. I removed it and checked for continuity with my voltmeter and there is none. I'm 99% sure this is my problem but should I check anything else while I'm at it? Could something further down the line have caused this part to fail or is this fairly common? My camper is 4 years old now and see's heavy use.
Thanks,
Randy
I'd say the 'snap switch' died. It is only a thermal fan switch that can be found at any plumbing supply place. The only consideration is to match the degree rating of the switch.
With that being said you can get your water heater working again by simply jumping the two wires together, that bypasses the switch.
You'll only want to do this when you need hot water. After that just disconnect the jumper until you find a new switch.

The damage may have been due to resistance at the connectors caused by looseness of the terminal.
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Old 09-24-2017, 11:10 PM   #3
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Making progress

So, I'll preface this by saying I'm camped in the backcountry outside Sedona, AZ so parts options are limited. I went by the Ace Hardware in town today to see if they had the part but no go. I hear there is a RV place in Cottonwood about 45 minutes away so I'l try there tomorrow.
Now, what I've done so far. I ran a jumper wire in place of that thermal cut off and sure enough she fired right up. However the flame is very "lazy" orange and sooty. It's not burning with it's normal blue flame roar. Not even close. I tried to adjust the slider tube to restrict air and it made almost no difference at all. Also, on the initial fire up once I installed the jumper the flame was actually coming up out of that adjustment tube so I think I know what happened tot he thermal cut off.
Any idea's as to why I have such a messy orange flame?
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Old 09-24-2017, 11:28 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by rcharrette View Post
So, I'll preface this by saying I'm camped in the backcountry outside Sedona, AZ so parts options are limited. I went by the Ace Hardware in town today to see if they had the part but no go. I hear there is a RV place in Cottonwood about 45 minutes away so I'l try there tomorrow.
Now, what I've done so far. I ran a jumper wire in place of that thermal cut off and sure enough she fired right up. However the flame is very "lazy" orange and sooty. It's not burning with it's normal blue flame roar. Not even close. I tried to adjust the slider tube to restrict air and it made almost no difference at all. Also, on the initial fire up once I installed the jumper the flame was actually coming up out of that adjustment tube so I think I know what happened tot he thermal cut off.
Any idea's as to why I have such a messy orange flame?
Ace Hardware rarely has anything one can use. Don't forget to stop by the HVAC shops or an appliance repair place. These switches are used in several applications. The RV place may have one on the shelf, if not ask if you can pull one from the pile of water heaters they probably have. People forget it freezes in AZ so there are a few split tanks here and there.
If you can't find a replacement you can always go with a manual adjustable thermostat with cap tube.
sumsing like this

It sounds as if the orifice is dirty. Or, just maybe there is an obstruction in the burner chamber. I'd check the orifice first though.
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Old 09-25-2017, 12:03 AM   #5
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Thanks, question

Is the Orfice the brass piece that feeds into the burner slider to adjust the flame? I checked that and it was clear.
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Old 09-25-2017, 12:20 AM   #6
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Yep, it's the little brass thing with the small hole in it. If it even has the smallest piece of dirt in it it will cause problems. You can't always see something in it so it's best to blow it out.

Another thing to check would be the gas pressure where it comes into the valve. If the stove works properly it's a good guess the regulator is OK. However, if you have the manometer to actually check the pressure the better.

The water heater is pretty simple, the valve opens and pushes gas through the orifice where it is burned. The air flow regulator is adjusted for flame pressure and the heat passes through the burner passage and heats the water.
Gas pressure is important and a clear orifice are key to make this happen. The gas pressure through the orifice is only 11 inches w.c., that's not much so anything in the orifice will impede gas flow.
Don't try and stick anything in the hole unless you have the actual tool, instead blow it out. Squirt some WD40 in it and blow it out or soak it in some soapy water and blow it out.

You can remove the heat shield from the exit end of the flame tube. That's where the heat escapes through the louvers in the cover. Perhaps a critter is living in there or something has obstructed it somehow.
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:20 AM   #7
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I went ahead and removed the orfice and soaked it in water for about 10 minutes blowing water through it every minute or so. I saw a few black specks in the water and got some hope but I hooked it all back up and no change. Still a heavy orange flame with lot's of "soot". Any advice on next steps......
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:53 AM   #8
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I went ahead and removed the orfice and soaked it in water for about 10 minutes blowing water through it every minute or so. I saw a few black specks in the water and got some hope but I hooked it all back up and no change. Still a heavy orange flame with lot's of "soot". Any advice on next steps......
Man, this is hurting my brain. I would have checked gas pressure but then again I have the tool to do so. Is the stove top working like it should? I know it's AZ but you might try to see if the furnace works properly. That would give us a clue that the regulator is working properly.
You might remove the air intake tube and see if there's a blockage in there. That's the tube you tried adjusting earlier. I'm only explaining things like this so we're on the same page regarding nomenclature.
Soot can mean a rich condition as in too much gas but that's controlled by the orifice. A rich condition could also mean insufficient air at the burner tube.
This is the part where I'd dig in my junk box and start replacing parts, including the valve but I'm sure you don't have that option.

Something is getting missed, did you blow air into the burner chamber? The burner chamber works the same way as the exhaust stack on the refrigerator works. It has to be clear for good combustion.

Post a photo of the water heater tomorrow if you can. I'm trying to remember what the parts look like.
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Old 09-25-2017, 01:03 PM   #9
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Sundancer 87

I really appreciate your effort in trying to help me fix this! I'm very good mechanically and great at following directions so generally with help from the internet (folks like you) I can fix most things.
So, I'm sorry but I forgot to mention in your original question. The stove and heater are both working perfectly. This is isolated to just the hot water heater. It seems that we've narrowed it down to just the air intake tube or the valve. I did remove the air intake tube yesterday and gave it a tap and tried to blow it out but I was pretty gentle with it for sure. I will pull that again today and try to run something through the tube.
I'll shoot a little video of it firing up once it's light out this morning as well.
I agree, it is running very rich, lack of air. If I blow into the flame it cleans right up and I get the "howling" blue flame that I should have.
Thanks again for your help!!
Randy
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Old 09-25-2017, 01:12 PM   #10
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I really appreciate your effort in trying to help me fix this! I'm very good mechanically and great at following directions so generally with help from the internet (folks like you) I can fix most things.
So, I'm sorry but I forgot to mention in your original question. The stove and heater are both working perfectly. This is isolated to just the hot water heater. It seems that we've narrowed it down to just the air intake tube or the valve. I did remove the air intake tube yesterday and gave it a tap and tried to blow it out but I was pretty gentle with it for sure. I will pull that again today and try to run something through the tube.
I'll shoot a little video of it firing up once it's light out this morning as well.
I agree, it is running very rich, lack of air. If I blow into the flame it cleans right up and I get the "howling" blue flame that I should have.
Thanks again for your help!!
Randy
I lived with RV water heaters and gas refrigerators for nearly 20 years in Mexico. I had many parts, circuit boards, valves and so forth. Being so far from parts I had to be self sufficient because help was three hundred miles away.
You have it down to a lack of combustion air so I think you might get it working.
Did this happen when you arrived in Sedona or have you been there for awhile before the problem came up?
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Old 09-25-2017, 01:17 PM   #11
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Previously we were camped in Colorado at 7000 feet and it worked fine. Got to Sedona and spent 2 weeks in a VRBO with the camper plugged into the house then moved up here and it does not work.
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Old 09-25-2017, 01:25 PM   #12
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Previously we were camped in Colorado at 7000 feet and it worked fine. Got to Sedona and spent 2 weeks in a VRBO with the camper plugged into the house then moved up here and it does not work.
That answers the altitude question that was running around in my head.
I don't know if there are mud daubers in that part of AZ, never seen them in the southern part but at this point it's worth a thought.
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Old 09-25-2017, 01:29 PM   #13
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I'm really starting to lean towards the valve block being the problem. I found One on Amazon Prime for $85 and could have it here tomorrow (ship to friends house). I'm going to pull that tube again to double check it and get that video for sure. Do you see these valve blocks go bad often? Again the camper has 4 years of pretty steady use on it
This is the valve block:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...X0RHL3OT&psc=1
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Old 09-25-2017, 01:32 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by sundancer 87 View Post
I lived with RV water heaters and gas refrigerators for nearly 20 years in Mexico. I had many parts, circuit boards, valves and so forth. Being so far from parts I had to be self sufficient because help was three hundred miles away.
You have it down to a lack of combustion air so I think you might get it working.
Did this happen when you arrived in Sedona or have you been there for awhile before the problem came up?
I had issues with my hot water heater due to dirt dobbers making nests in the throat of the mixing chamber ...
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Old 09-25-2017, 01:39 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by rcharrette View Post
I'm really starting to lean towards the valve block being the problem. I found One on Amazon Prime for $85 and could have it here tomorrow (ship to friends house). I'm going to pull that tube again to double check it and get that video for sure. Do you see these valve blocks go bad often? Again the camper has 4 years of pretty steady use on it
This is the valve block:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...X0RHL3OT&psc=1
I can't rule out them going bad and I suppose they do because of the way things are made these days. I remember being able to take the blocks apart but no more.

With the kit you get the ECO switches too so that solves another problem.

You may just have used it all up as they say.
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Old 09-25-2017, 02:52 PM   #16
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Here are some pictures of the hot water heater with it lit.


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Old 09-25-2017, 04:18 PM   #17
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Yep, it's yellow all right!

You could, as a last ditch effort remove the incoming gas line from the valve and the orifice on the other end.
Apply 12 volts to the valve to open it and blow low air pressure through there. Since you are going to replace it any way you can't hurt it.
If nothing else it will be a learning experience and you may end up with a spare.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:25 AM   #18
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I'll probably try that. I've got some time tonight. New valve is on order. I'll update once I receive and install it. Thanks again for your help!
Randy
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:51 AM   #19
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You're very welcome. Hopefully we can put this one to bed!
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Old 09-27-2017, 02:19 AM   #20
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Try this to adjust your flame
https://youtu.be/nSjDklZh4ws
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