No Power

[Gunny]

Alrighty, been a while since I've been here, but winter was a blast & now it's summer. So, I thought I would check out some things in the toy hauler.
I thought I would check things out with just the shore power before I reinstalled the batteries or tried the generator.

I plugged the shore power to a 30 amp plug, slides went out fine, awning went out & rolled up fine. Did this for a couple days. Then today, the kids wanted the AC on. So I started the AC, it ran for a few minutes & then it tripped the breakers in the garage. Reset the breakers and .......... no power in the trailer now. HOWEVER, the microwave comes on & so does the dust devil. But no lights, the slides won't work, etc.

I checked all the breakers in the trailer control box & all the fuses & I reset the GFI socket in the bathroom several times ... still, nothing.

So ... anyone got any ideas ?? Do I need to hook up the batteries ?? (Thought I would do that tomorrow anyway now)

BTW .. the toy hauler is a 2013 V3005 Voltage 5th wheel toy hauler.

Thanks for any help anyone can give me. This sucks !!




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[ATCguy]

Ok, I'm not an electrical guy... but I believe you do need the battery hooked up for continuous operation of the rig.

Your lights & slideouts run on 12v DC power. It's my understanding that 110v shore power dues not provide direct current to the 12v system... that it maintains a charge in the battery for that via the inverter/converter (never could keep those straight as to which one is which).

I'm sure the electrical gurus will chime in to provide more info...

[Gunny]

Thanks for the reply ATCguy ... and I hear ya on the 12v thing .... but my slides did go out & the awning did go out & back a couple times on just the shore power. I never did try the lights thou.

AND, I installed a USB plug which also shows the system (trailer) voltage. That had came on before, but now, there's no power to that plug ??




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[MartyG]

Focus on getting the 12VDC restored. Put batteries in first. Double check fuses. It sounds like the converter died from running without batteries. By "died," I don't know if it is permanent, i.e. something broken, or temporary, i.e. a blown fuse. The battery voltage should increase when AC power is on (indicating that the converter is charging the battery). If it doesn't, your batteries will run down, and the converter is inop. After all this, try restarting the AC. Make sure you're on a good 30 amp circuit, with no long "cheapie" extension cords.

[RVNevada]

Also, if you are running more then one A/C, and other items, lights, Ref,water heater, etc. you may need 50 amps....

[Gunny]

Originally Posted by MartyG

Focus on getting the 12VDC restored. Put batteries in first. Double check fuses. It sounds like the converter died from running without batteries. By "died," I don't know if it is permanent, i.e. something broken, or temporary, i.e. a blown fuse. The battery voltage should increase when AC power is on (indicating that the converter is charging the battery). If it doesn't, your batteries will run down, and the converter is inop. After all this, try restarting the AC. Make sure you're on a good 30 amp circuit, with no long "cheapie" extension cords.

Head'in out now to start the battery install & check things as you outlined MartyG Guy !! .... Thanks for the info.

Originally Posted by RVNevada

Also, if you are running more then one A/C, and other items, lights, Ref,water heater, etc. you may need 50 amps....

Understood RVNevada Guy ... but no extras while at the house ... for now anyway ... OK, except maybe lights.

Thanks guys ........ I'll let ya know.




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[Gunny]

Well, my helpful friends ... I installed the batteries, checked the lights, etc, & everything worked. Started the generator, all is good. And the AC came on just fine. I then plugged the trailer into the garage power, no change, everything including the AC works as it should.

However, I'm not sure the batteries are charging ?? Been out there a couple hours & no change to the voltage. So I checked the main breaker box & flipped the breaker for the converter, off, & then back on.

I then went into the storage area & removed the wall to check out the converter itself. Who designs these things ?? They put the converter in what I feel is the worse possible location & it's a SOB to get to. I'll be moving that later. And don't get me started on the mess they call wiring & the waterlines ... DAMN !!

Anyway, the converter had two 40 amp fuses, I removed them, they were OK, & I reinstalled them. Not sure if the converter is working, charging the batteries. When I plugged the fuses back in, the fan (or whatever) came for a few seconds, and then it went quiet.

I'll check the batteries in a couple hours to see if they are being charged.

ANYWAY, things are working (pretty much) so I'm way more relaxed now.

Thanks for the assistance guys !!




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[MartyG]

The next step is easy, but you need a voltmeter or multimeter. Unplug shore power, and just read voltage across the battery. To the nearest tenth of a volt. Stay there, and have someone plug shore power back in. If the converter is working you'll see an increase. Usually from 12.0 to 13.6 VDC. If there is no increase, the converter is not putting out.

[bigcntry13]

Kinda almost sounds like the batteries are completely charged already. The fan on the converter runs when it is charging only. I would keep batteries in, unplug from shore power, run some lights, radio and such for a little while. Then plug back in and see if you hear the fan running. Although Marty G's is a much easier way LOL

[Gunny]

Originally Posted by MartyG

The next step is easy, but you need a voltmeter or multimeter. Unplug shore power, and just read voltage across the battery. To the nearest tenth of a volt. Stay there, and have someone plug shore power back in. If the converter is working you'll see an increase. Usually from 12.0 to 13.6 VDC. If there is no increase, the converter is not putting out.

MartyG, Well Bugger ... there's no change when the shore power is plugged in. Yes, the fan on the converter comes on for a few seconds, but no voltage change. And the batteries were only 12.75v when I put them in. They're at 12.8v right now, but I remember, before, when shore power was plugged in, it would jump to 13.5v right now.

So my converter is toast ?? ..... sigh ............ bugger ..............

Originally Posted by bigcntry13

Kinda almost sounds like the batteries are completely charged already. The fan on the converter runs when it is charging only. I would keep batteries in, unplug from shore power, run some lights, radio and such for a little while. Then plug back in and see if you hear the fan running. Although Marty G's is a much easier way LOL

Nope Bigcntry Guy ... the batteries weren't fully charged when I put them in this morning. And they never did hit 13.5v while plugged in, so I believe my converter is toast.

But I will try your idea tomorrow ... got other things to do right now.




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[bigcntry13]

Gunny, sorry to hear your converter may be toast. On the bright side this allows you to upgrade to a much better converter with charge wizard. I know when my bites it that's the way I will be going. maybe going that way even sooner. www.bestconverter.com

[MartyG]

Gunny, it sounds like it's dead. Double check all connections and fuses. In many cases it's possible to replace the regulator circuit board, without buying the expensive chassis, transformer and circuit breakers. Time to shop, and explore your options. Good luck!

[Gunny]

Originally Posted by bigcntry13

Gunny, sorry to hear your converter may be toast. On the bright side this allows you to upgrade to a much better converter with charge wizard. I know when my bites it that's the way I will be going. maybe going that way even sooner. www.bestconverter.com

Ummm ... that brings up a good question ... can a guy just replace the factory converter with ANY other converter ??

The factory one looks like a WFCO 9875 series 75amp converter. So, what would some of you recommend to replace it with ?? ... cause I have no idea.

Originally Posted by MartyG

Gunny, it sounds like it's dead. Double check all connections and fuses. In many cases it's possible to replace the regulator circuit board, without buying the expensive chassis, transformer and circuit breakers. Time to shop, and explore your options. Good luck!

Yup, I agree MartyG ... I did some checking on troubleshooting & it sounds like the internals are toast.

To replace this "Regulator Circuit Board" ... I would drill out the rivets holding the case on, right ?? And is this regulator circuit board a plug & play thing ??

By the way, tried to look up buying just the circuit board ... with no luck ....




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[Gunny]

So, is this PowerMax PM4B-75 4 stage converter/charger an upgrade from my current WFCO 9875 75 amp converter ??

WFCO 9875 75 Amp Deckmount Converter-Charger

PowerMax PM4B-75 (75 Amp 4-Stage Converter/Charger)

The PowerMax has a 3yr warranty and ... will work with or WITHOUT a battery it says. (That might be a good thing for me, huh !?!? ... HAHAHAHA !!)

I believe the WFCO converter is a 3 stage converter & the PowerMax is a 4 stage

From what I read, I'd say "Yes, the PowerMax would be a good choice to replace the WFCO converter." .... but what do you guys think ?? ... I'd like to know if it's that much of an upgrade. Thanks for any info on the subject.


BTW ... at Amazon, there's only like 14 cents difference in price. So I'm leaning towards the more expensive PowerMax PMB-75 converter/charger.

NOTE: ... Amazon is out of stock of the PowerMax converter ..... sigh .....



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[wahoonc]

Gunny,

Get the Powermax converter, money well spent. You can email Randy at Best Converter and he can answer any specific questions. I have been buying stuff from him for the past 10+ years for a variety of RV's. He is a small independent, veteran owned company and very responsive to questions. I have emailed late on a Friday and have had a response within less than an hour.

Aaron

[MartyG]

Originally Posted by Gunny

To replace this "Regulator Circuit Board" ... I would drill out the rivets holding the case on, right ?? And is this regulator circuit board a plug & play thing ??

By the way, tried to look up buying just the circuit board ... with no luck .......

Gunny, I misspoke. After looking at the website given, I was referring to the converter when I said the circuit board. I was trying to say you didn't have to buy the whole cabinet/housing. They all look simple enough, i.e. black, white and green wires input, red / black output. That is, both the WFCO, and the Powermax, which I also like. I trust Aaron's opinion, too.

[Gunny]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

Gunny,

Get the Powermax converter, money well spent. You can email Randy at Best Converter and he can answer any specific questions. I have been buying stuff from him for the past 10+ years for a variety of RV's. He is a small independent, veteran owned company and very responsive to questions. I have emailed late on a Friday and have had a response within less than an hour.

Aaron

Right On Wahoonc Guy !!

Originally Posted by MartyG

Gunny, I misspoke. After looking at the website given, I was referring to the converter when I said the circuit board. I was trying to say you didn't have to buy the whole cabinet/housing. They all look simple enough, i.e. black, white and green wires input, red / black output. That is, both the WFCO, and the Powermax, which I also like. I trust Aaron's opinion, too.

Good To Go MartyG ... but after looking at what I have, and what I would be replacing it with, I think I'm gonna order the PowerMax one.

Thanks for all the help guys ... Happy Camping ... WOO HOO !!




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[jeffwelsh]

Get the powermax. That's what I did when my WFCO went out. The powermax is a much better unit. I was surprised at how little the fan runs on the powermax. On the WFCO seems like it ran almost all the time with any lights on.
-Jeff

[Gunny]

Originally Posted by jeffwelsh

Get the powermax. That's what I did when my WFCO went out. The powermax is a much better unit. I was surprised at how little the fan runs on the powermax. On the WFCO seems like it ran almost all the time with any lights on.
-Jeff

Right On Jeffwelsh Guy ... I ordered the PowerMax from Amazon, even thou they are out of stock because it was almost $50 cheaper (with shipping) than anywhere else & the way things are going with my folks, I doubt I'll be able to get out this year until maybe September .... sigh .......

I've also changed all my lights to LED bulbs, so even the WACO didn't come on much after that. With the PowerMax, the fan with probably never ever come on !! ....




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[wahoonc]

I am not impressed with WFCO, they are mediocre at best. What really ticks me off is their warranty claims process. IF they approve your warranty claim, you are without a converter for up to 6 weeks. If they don't approve it you are still out 6 weeks plus the cost of having to replace the converter. If you happen to be using a dealer to do the work you can add least $250+ to the bill plus the cost of a new converter. I would love to know what their failure rate is. Based on what I know I would wager it is in the 10%+ range which is not all that good. But they are one of the cheapest on the market and when the bean counters build RV's that's what you get.

On the last go around with them on my Coleman I just figured I was money ahead to swap in the the Progressive Dynamics, it was a better converter, produced more 12 volt power and cost less than $200. I got a bit peeved at them when they kept insisting that I take to an "authorized" service center. I got news for them, I know more than most of the techs at my closest center.

Aaron