No Pride in thier work - Dutchmen Owners

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Old 12-26-2016, 03:05 PM   #1
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No Pride in thier work

Not even a year ago we had a slide out motor go sour on our 2012 Thor Voltage. As a lot of RV owners are aware of it is really hard to find an rv shop that is 100% reliable, especially up and down the front range of Colorado. We are Good Sams members and decided to have it fixed at Camping World in Longmont, Co. They said they had worked on Lipperts Schwintek System before so I made an appointment and dropped it off. They changed the motor and told me that the motors in the camper were generation 2 motors and Lippert was up to generation 5. Asked if they were having problems with the system because I had met others with the same problem, Also asked if there was a recall and they said no. It was finished when they said; we picked it up and brought it home. We have only used this unit 4 times since Camping World fixed it.
In the month of November 2016 we sold our house and moved south to Arizona on the way we stopped at an rv park. Went to open the living room slide which was cleaned, new motor installed and lubed, and the entire motor and drive column pulled right out of the side of the rv. After paying a couple of really big guys to help put everything back in the rv we went on to our destination. I had someone with rv experience help me fix the slide and come to find out that 5 of the screws that hold the Schintek system inplace were snapped off and the heads of the screws siliconed in place in the rv wall-someone doesn’t know how to use a screw gun- and the rest of the screws were stripped out of their holes. Called Camping World about what was going on and they blew me off, called Lippert for some sort of direction and they also didn’t call back. Now you would think that “Camping World” would want to jump in and help a fellow rv’er on the road with a major situation.
Apparently no one has pride in the work they do and it seems they don’t care.
Pretty said. Now my slide is fixed the best we could get it, no thanks to all the experts I attempted to reach out to, Camping World is finished in my book .
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Old 12-26-2016, 03:31 PM   #2
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Yup, so it is these days.

Lately I've begun to wonder if its not because working people aren't making enough to enjoy the American Dream, don't make enough to contribute much to a 401K, the company did away with the pension program, the health insurance is now high-deductible.

And if you choose to have children...we'll you're not going to retire.

Perhaps the working man/woman asks "why should I give my all, when its not getting me anything?"

Been headed this direction for nigh onto 30 years...and here we are...

Just my thoughts,

Pirate
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Old 12-26-2016, 03:57 PM   #3
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This confirms my opinion. I live in Longmont and would never take my voltage to CW. Windish in Longmont is a voltage dealer and services mine. They have always done a reasonable job, although nothing major has required fixing so far.
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Old 12-26-2016, 04:58 PM   #4
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Yup, so it is these days.

Lately I've begun to wonder if its not because working people aren't making enough to enjoy the American Dream, don't make enough to contribute much to a 401K, the company did away with the pension program, the health insurance is now high-deductible.

And if you choose to have children...we'll you're not going to retire.

Perhaps the working man/woman asks "why should I give my all, when its not getting me anything?"

Been headed this direction for nigh onto 30 years...and here we are...

Just my thoughts,

Pirate
With all you said Pirate, the fact that PRIDE has to be there. One can't go through the motions of life without having a little pride in what they are doing.
I'll get a low paying crappy remodel job that will be finished as if I am doing a mega buck job. My pride and signature is on the line and I walk away knowing I didn't cheap out or cut corners.
Unfortunately these days employees will do more than what they think they are worth. Which, in most cases, isn't a whole lot.
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Old 12-26-2016, 05:25 PM   #5
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I'm of the opinion that this is far from an issue limited to the RV industry.
And with no intention to offend anyone, it has NOTHING to do with pay scale.

For lack of a better way to put it, I think it is cultural.

I'll skip the urge to find blame and simply point out that it wasn't always this way.
With all the faults that our grandparents generation might have had (They had some doooozies), they knew much more about integrity and a man's word.
They had far more tolerance for pain and\or sacrifice. And I don't remember anything that even resembles what we call today "entitlement".

Please don't hear in my words any kind of whining or tears. I'm actually very much an optimist! And I am overwhelmed with how blessed we all are in the modern world.

But in regards to this thread, the day of the proud mechanic, blacksmith, carpenter, ...............men who provided for their family with a trade?
Not what it once was.

Thus, the most common advice I have seen on this forum is something like "I come hear and get the help and expertise of others, then fix it myself. That way I know it will be done right".

Sound advice these days!
Grateful for this forum.
I know I am in good hands!
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Old 12-26-2016, 05:37 PM   #6
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Not to 'jack' the thread but it is anyway, I was just thinking how far we have come since the days of remembering when the milk man's cart was horse drawn.
The progress that has given us a longer life, faster everything, new innovations, too many choices and so forth has been great but by the same time has hurt us as a society.
We don't communicate with strangers, hardly know our neighbors, don't wave as often to someone on the road, can't repair our cars, throw stuff away needlessly and become believers in of 24 hour news and, here again, become the herd instead of the shepard.
Hell, I know I'm old and have seen the great progress that has been made but I also know that I'm glad I won't be around when it all goes to hell in a hand basket.
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Old 12-26-2016, 07:36 PM   #7
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My opinions on product repair

I usually just do repairs /mods myself I take pride in my work.
It also seems most repair shops will not pay a good technician but will hire cheap labor who actually mean well but do not have the expertise to do the job correctly and will not ask the more advanced techs. for fear of looking stupid.
Another problem is the quality of the materials, a lot of them are made elsewhere (mainly China) and QA is no-existent, therefore cheap and cheaply made.
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Old 12-27-2016, 02:10 PM   #8
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So, another first-poster (only post?) slamming CW. I had a main slide problem when my 3600 was new and the Tucson CW ordered the parts and fixed it in two days. Been running fine ever since.
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:17 PM   #9
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So, another first-poster (only post?) slamming CW. I had a main slide problem when my 3600 was new and the Tucson CW ordered the parts and fixed it in two days. Been running fine ever since.
CW is a crap shoot. Unfortunately they are all over the map when it comes to customer service. I bought a bed lift kit for my little Coleman camper, I bought the wrong size and figured it out when I got it out of the box and started sizing things up. Carefully put it back in the box with all the pieces and took it back to the CW I purchased it from. They would not accept the return because the box had been opened. BTW this was the same CW that I had purchased my camper from. I put it back in my car, gave them a piece of my mind and left. A week later I was in a different state and happened to see a CW from the interstate. Pulled off and took the lift kit in, explained that it was not the correct size and could I return it. No problem... go figure.

I wouldn't trust my local CW to screw a couple of 2x4's together, much less fix something as complicated as an RV. It used to be an independent dealer until they got bought out by CW. One of the first things they did was fire the Service Manager and all the techs, then offer to hire them back at lower wages. None of the current techs have any certifications, when it was an independent ALL of the techs were expected to get their RVIA certifications in a reasonable length of time.

Aaron
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:58 PM   #10
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Hate to paint with a broad brush, but most of my CW repairs have been poor. I use them only out of necessity. I've had much better luck with General RV.
Rusty
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Old 12-28-2016, 12:34 AM   #11
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I just find it ironic that somebody who complains about other's attention to detail misspells a key word in the Title of the subject.
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Old 12-28-2016, 12:53 AM   #12
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I just find it ironic that somebody who complains about other's attention to detail misspells a key word in the Title of the subject.
Way to be petty. #Winning
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Old 12-28-2016, 01:05 AM   #13
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Ouch, I thought we helped repair RVs here for each other, didn't know the spelling police were present.
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Old 12-28-2016, 02:41 AM   #14
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I had a really nice experience, shopping, buying, and then taking delivery from my dealership. There were about 5 or 6 people in various positions that played a part in the whole process.

So I admittedly have a good opinion of the specific location I did business with. (They have about 9 locations)

Still, I wouldn't expect what I enjoyed to be any kind of proof that every customer would or could be guaranteed the same opinion. There's just too many variables in play. Would if I'd been less fortunate and gotten a unit that required warranty repairs that the manufacturer (Dutchman) made difficult? I'm betting my story could be soured with just one person in the mix overriding everyone else.

It's a gamble in this business.
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Old 12-28-2016, 04:18 AM   #15
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Ouch, I thought we helped repair RVs here for each other, didn't know the spelling police were present.
It's not that, Sundancer, you should know me. In over 500 posts, I've never criticized even the most horrible spelling and grammar. I've tried to help folks when their English was so bad you couldn't even comprehend what they were asking, without further questions.
I do get a little high-handed when I see someone who is well off (enough to own a Voltage) criticize the guys at CW who MIGHT make $12/hr ($25K/yr) in his/her first post. Sign in, and criticize the little guy! We will probably never hear from him again. That part did indeed get my Irish Up!
I just saw the pot calling the kettle black on small details, and I called it ironic.
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Old 12-28-2016, 03:16 PM   #16
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It's not that, Sundancer, you should know me. In over 500 posts, I've never criticized even the most horrible spelling and grammar. I've tried to help folks when their English was so bad you couldn't even comprehend what they were asking, without further questions.
I do get a little high-handed when I see someone who is well off (enough to own a Voltage) criticize the guys at CW who MIGHT make $12/hr ($25K/yr) in his/her first post. Sign in, and criticize the little guy! We will probably never hear from him again. That part did indeed get my Irish Up!
I just saw the pot calling the kettle black on small details, and I called it ironic.
What I find ironic is how little substance your argument has. It's extremely weak at its very best. I mean who the hell are you? Would you be mad if someone you were supposed to be able to trust messed up your rig? Let's not forget here, these people advertise themselves as the professionals. Pay has nothing at all to do with it. Last I checked ragging on someone for a typo or two that they made - who isn't getting paid to type, unlike those who were being paid to fix their RV - is petty and childish. After that you go on about how much money they may or may not make to have afforded such a nice trailer? Give me a break. That's pathetic. Bordering on jealous. How do you know they didn't save up for years to buy that one thing? Do the world a favor and go troll somewhere else with your PhD in English.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:31 PM   #17
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Just a note that may have been forgotten. CW has lifetime warranty on its labor. Its posted in every CW i have been in. Take it back with your receipt and let them fix it. Remember lifetime is a deal especially when they screw up like your motor was. Hold them to the fire and make them make it right.. i have several times
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Old 12-29-2016, 09:54 AM   #18
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Just wanted to say that the nice thing about this forum is that everyone is almost always pretty cordial with their posts. I also read The Hull Truth forum where people border on meanness and are sometimes just nasty to each other. No fun. I understand where some posts can just get to you. Best to bite the tongue, keep the fingers off the keyboard for a few minutes and move on. I enjoy reading everyone's posts, even if they don't apply to me. Let's keep it informative and polite. Thanks,
Rusty
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Old 12-29-2016, 12:31 PM   #19
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My experience with CW has been less than satisfying too. At least the local one here in central PA. Without going into all the sordid details, every repair took at least three tries, many I had to complete myself after realizing they did not have the skills to complete (air conditioners, wood trim, water systems, wiring, etc.). The service writer who let our rig set on the lot a total of six months (first few visits) during the first year was finally fired. One visit I spoke to an older couple who left their new motorhome there over six months ago for warranty service. They were there to get it because CW stopped returning their calls and emails.

They finally hired a new service writer who is genuinely concerned about doing a good job. The problem I learned through conversations with him was they couldn’t find enough qualified/skilled people to do the work. Whatever the reason for that is not important when you’ve just dropped close to $70K and are denied use because it is setting on the lot waiting or being returned the third or fourth time for warranty repairs. Also note, I have no problem making repairs myself to avoid the logistical problems associated with service visits, But, when there are expensive parts required or extensive labor involved (removing kitchen slide, removing bedroom slide, replacing all springs, etc.), warranty service was required.

Here is a classic example of one of the many problems they themselves caused when they installed the Fantastic fan in the bathroom before delivery…
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Old 12-29-2016, 01:09 PM   #20
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CW wants to hire people at the lowest possible wage to maximize profits. That is their only goal in most cases. The one nearest me used to be a very good independent dealer. One of the first things to happen when CW bought them out was to fire the entire service staff and rehire them at lower wages. A lot of the most senior techs didn't come back, nor the service writer that had been there for over 20 years. NONE off the current techs are RVIA certified. My local CW charges $149 an hour for shop labor... REALLY? That is more than I pay at my local Ford dealer that has factory trained techs. Also the techs at the Ford dealer make more than double what CW pays theirs. I find it pretty pathetic that the average wage for an RV tech is less than $14 an hour. For someone with proper knowlege and certifications that is an insult. I looked into getting my RVIA certs, but I am not going to do it for that kind of money. I had considered doing my own mobile repair, but I am not sure I am interested in that at this point in my life.

Several of the major manufacturers, especially the ones with the excessive number of warranty claims don't appear to provide much in the way of documentation to help the techs out either.

Unfortunately it is caveat emptor and hope you either won the lottery or have the skills to do it yourself.

Aaron
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