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Old 11-24-2013, 07:26 PM   #1
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Voltage Toy Hauler Owners (I need a favor)

I was wondering if anybody that has a Voltage Toy Hauler and access to the unit would do me a favor. I need to know if your refrigerator electric plug is a GFI plug on non GFI.

The reason I am asking this is I have a Voltage 3905 and had solar, extra batteries and an inverter installed at the dealer. My refrigerator is on a non GFI plug and the inverter operate all non GFI plug. So, when the coach in plugged into shore power with the refrigerator in AU mode when I disconnect it senses AC voltage from the inverter and starts drawing off of the batteries. Every plug on the exterior (or anywhere near the exterior) of the coach is GFI. Except my Refrigerator.

I know I could just remember to set the refrigerator to manual but it is the if the coach is wired wrong I want it fixed. My voltage is in for warranty work right now but I am banging my head against the wall to get any help from said dealer.

I guess the way to check it would be to turn on the refrigerator set it to AC and turn off the GFI circuit breaker. If refrigerator switches over to LP then mine is wrong.

I know. It's a favor. I hate asking favors but I don't know where else to turn.

Thanks
Arlan
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:46 PM   #2
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Sorry

I'm sorry for the double post. I was trying to find the post and couldn't so I posted again.
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:34 PM   #3
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GFIC for me on a 3800.

The refrigerator would see AC voltage from the inverter and therefore wouldn't switch to gas as you would expect. I don't think it's a wiring problem, just the refrigerator's board doing what it's supposed to do.

To override having the refrigerator excite the inverter you will have to switch to manual mode or perhaps a remote on/off switch for the inverter.
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:56 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by sundancer 87 View Post
GFIC for me on a 3800.

The refrigerator would see AC voltage from the inverter and therefore wouldn't switch to gas as you would expect. I don't think it's a wiring problem, just the refrigerator's board doing what it's supposed to do.

To override having the refrigerator excite the inverter you will have to switch to manual mode or perhaps a remote on/off switch for the inverter.
Thanks for the reply. I have been posting elsewhere with no action.

You have answered my question. My refrigerator is not on a GFIC line. That is the problem. My inverter operates all plugs that are not GFIC so the refrigerator see AC when the inverter is operating and starts using my battery bank.

I am by no means an electrician but if your unit has GFIC plug on the refrigerator and mine does not, it should be possible to change the wiring over.

It was a bigger problem before I realized what was happening. I can just make sure the refrigerator is not set to AC or Auto but it's wrong to have to do so.

Thanks again,
Arlan

On Edit....

Not trying to be picky but I was wondering

I just looked up the acronym and it is GFCI.

Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:05 PM   #5
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Hell, I can't even spell CPR correctly!
The GFCIs in the rigs don't look like the ones you'll find in your house. The GFCIs in the rigs have a sticker between the outlets and not the red reset button like in a residence.

The circuit interruption is done at the breaker instead of the outlet so you will only have two wires and ground at the outlet for the refrigerator. However, I don't think you'll improve anything by changing recepticles to the refigerator.
When you disconnect from shore power the inverter takes over within a few miliseconds. The inverter now is supplying AC as it should. The change over is quick enough the circuit board for the refrigerator doesn't sense a loss of AC for sufficient time so it doesn't switch to propane.

A simple delay circuit could be built that would delay the AC when the inverter takes over so the refrigerator would think it needs to change to propane.
You don't have a problem, everything is working as it should and that's the result.
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:32 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by sundancer 87 View Post
Hell, I can't even spell CPR correctly!
The GFCIs in the rigs don't look like the ones you'll find in your house. The GFCIs in the rigs have a sticker between the outlets and not the red reset button like in a residence.

The circuit interruption is done at the breaker instead of the outlet so you will only have two wires and ground at the outlet for the refrigerator. However, I don't think you'll improve anything by changing recepticles to the refigerator.
When you disconnect from shore power the inverter takes over within a few miliseconds. The inverter now is supplying AC as it should. The change over is quick enough the circuit board for the refrigerator doesn't sense a loss of AC for sufficient time so it doesn't switch to propane.

A simple delay circuit could be built that would delay the AC when the inverter takes over so the refrigerator would think it needs to change to propane.
You don't have a problem, everything is working as it should and that's the result.
Now I'm really confused. I don't know that we are on the same page here. My problems is this.

All the plugs near water, near the outside of the coach or in the storage area up front are GFCI except the refrigerator. And that is the problem. If the refrigerator were on the GFCI circuit it would not be tied to the inverter and would never sense AC presence when disconnected for shore power. As it is now it thinks it is still on shore power and feed off of the batteries. If I turn the inverter off it switches over to LP>

I do know the plugs do not look like conventional GFCI plugs and that they are controlled at the circuit breaker box. Perhaps it is not possible to change it over. I don't know.

I guess I need to head to the dealership. 500 mile round trip or somehow convince them of what I am trying to say. It sounds so simple from my point of view.

Perhaps the dealer will get if figured out for me.

Did you actually check your unit to see if the refrigerator is on a GFCI set of plugs.

Thanks for the assistance. I do appreciate it.

Arlan
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:58 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by arlan in arizona View Post
Now I'm really confused. I don't know that we are on the same page here. My problems is this.

All the plugs near water, near the outside of the coach or in the storage area up front are GFCI except the refrigerator. And that is the problem. If the refrigerator were on the GFCI circuit it would not be tied to the inverter and would never sense AC presence when disconnected for shore power. As it is now it thinks it is still on shore power and feed off of the batteries. If I turn the inverter off it switches over to LP>

I do know the plugs do not look like conventional GFCI plugs and that they are controlled at the circuit breaker box. Perhaps it is not possible to change it over. I don't know.

I guess I need to head to the dealership. 500 mile round trip or somehow convince them of what I am trying to say. It sounds so simple from my point of view.

Perhaps the dealer will get if figured out for me.

Did you actually check your unit to see if the refrigerator is on a GFCI set of plugs.

Thanks for the assistance. I do appreciate it.

Arlan
I guess I spaced the part about the GFCIs not being tied to the inverter. I would have expected them to be tied in like the rest. I don't know how the inverter was installed but I imagined the inverter being between shore power and battery bank. Output from the inverter tied into the mains box thereby servicing all the AC needs.

I replaced the high temperature limit switch on my Norcold the other day and I disconnected the refrigerator at the GFCI in the exterior access space.

Would it be possible to tie onto a GFCI circuit in the kitchen to power the refrigerator?
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:05 AM   #8
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Thanks again. I will get I figured out soon. I believe the warranty work will be finished on my 3905 soon. Hopefully this issue will be taken care of. At least I know the problem now. Just have to remember to set the refrigerator to LP. Or just unplug the sucker and plug back in when I am on prolonged shore power.
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Old 11-25-2013, 03:18 AM   #9
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Well I went out to my unit and found that Fridge in on a circuit that is not on the GFCI circuit.
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:58 AM   #10
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I just tried it on my Voltage. My Refrigerator was in AU mode and running on AC. I turned off the GFCI Circuit Breaker and it stayed on AC. It did not switch to LP. I guess that would prove that my Refrigerator is on a non-GFCI circuit breaker.

I have a GFCI outlet in my bathroom and all the outlets that are labled GFCI work from this outlet in the bathroom. I determined this by pressing the TEST button in the bathroom and all the outlets labeled GFCI did not have power until I pressed the RESET button on the outlet in the bathroom.

I just hooked up an Inverter this evening so I don't have to run the generator so much in the evening while we are watching TV. It's only a 700 watt Inverter so I turned off all the breakers except the one labeled General Purpose. I put the Refrigerator in LP mode.

I would really like to know how you could hook-up an Inverter and it run everything BUT the GFCI circuit. I don't see anyway of doing that. My Inverter tries to power everything that runs through the Main Breaker. That's why I turn off all breakers except the one that powers my TV and DVD player.
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Old 11-25-2013, 07:57 AM   #11
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Well I went out to my unit and found that Fridge in on a circuit that is not on the GFCI circuit.
eightydo, I appreciate you doing that test for me. Mine is the same as yours and the gentleman in the post below you. I feel a little better know that my unit is NOT wired wrong. I can deal with the issue now with out being ticked at the builder.

Thank you for your doing that for me.
Arlan
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:07 AM   #12
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I just tried it on my Voltage. My Refrigerator was in AU mode and running on AC. I turned off the GFCI Circuit Breaker and it stayed on AC. It did not switch to LP. I guess that would prove that my Refrigerator is on a non-GFCI circuit breaker.

I have a GFCI outlet in my bathroom and all the outlets that are labled GFCI work from this outlet in the bathroom. I determined this by pressing the TEST button in the bathroom and all the outlets labeled GFCI did not have power until I pressed the RESET button on the outlet in the bathroom.

I just hooked up an Inverter this evening so I don't have to run the generator so much in the evening while we are watching TV. It's only a 700 watt Inverter so I turned off all the breakers except the one labeled General Purpose. I put the Refrigerator in LP mode.

I would really like to know how you could hook-up an Inverter and it run everything BUT the GFCI circuit. I don't see anyway of doing that. My Inverter tries to power everything that runs through the Main Breaker. That's why I turn off all breakers except the one that powers my TV and DVD player.
Thank you for your help. It appears that the refrigerators are not GFCI after all and you guys have eased my mine an concerns on my unit. I don't know how they wired the unit to operated everything but the GFCI (also, the air conditioning is not on the inverter) so I can't say.

I really appreciate you guys taking the time and trouble to do me this favor.

Have a great Thanksgiving.

Arlan
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Old 11-25-2013, 02:08 PM   #13
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Ok, I stand corrected on the GFCI and refrigerator!!! I ASSumed the frig was protected by the GFCI breaker because that's what the sticker on the outlet says. Apparently the sticker is of no import because the GFCI circuit breaker doesn't control the refrigerator.
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Old 11-25-2013, 03:13 PM   #14
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Ok, I stand corrected on the GFCI and refrigerator!!! I ASSumed the frig was protected by the GFCI breaker because that's what the sticker on the outlet says. Apparently the sticker is of no import because the GFCI circuit breaker doesn't control the refrigerator.

No problem sundancer. Thanks for getting back to me. Now I won't be making a fool of myself telling the dealer they don't know what they are talking about. We all make mistakes in this life.

Happy holidays and happy camping.

Arlan
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:37 PM   #15
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No problem sundancer. Thanks for getting back to me. Now I won't be making a fool of myself telling the dealer they don't know what they are talking about. We all make mistakes in this life.

Happy holidays and happy camping.

Arlan
Tell 'em anyway!!!
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Old 08-10-2014, 10:38 PM   #16
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You don't want fridge on GFCI anyway. the way fridges work they would pop GFCI when you don't expect it and then you would have no fridge.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:37 AM   #17
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You don't want fridge on GFCI anyway. the way fridges work they would pop GFCI when you don't expect it and then you would have no fridge.

Given heating elements are considered direct shorts wouldn't a 20 amp GFCI outlet handle the heating elements in a gas refrigerator?

Both elements, when working, draw 450 watts total which is less than some blow dryers and curling irons used in many bathrooms.
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:32 PM   #18
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Your correct but the thought of it tripping when gone for the day is my main concern. they alway say never plug your extra fridge or freezer into the one in your house garage for the same reason.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:19 PM   #19
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If one had the refrigerator on 'automatic' it would default to gas if the electricity fell out.

A residential unit in a garage is another thing. GFCIs are sensitive devices engineered to detect a ground fault. Basically a ground fault is a path to ground from the hot side of the circuit. That path can be completed by a wiring short or by your body being between the hot side and ground, therefore the reason for the circuit being interupted. Also, if some fault caused an imbalance between the neutral leg and the hot leg in a circuit the GFCI would trip. In a garage the GFCI circuit is mainly to protect a person from a ground fault in a wet area, the same for the kitchen and bathroom or on the patio or an external outlet.
The gas refrigerator in of itself shouldn't trip a GFCI unless it's downstream from something else that might cause an overload to cause the thing to trip.

All in all it's not a good idea to have a refrigerator on a GFCI because of the sensitivity and the possibility of losing the contents but not because of the operation of the refrigerator.
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