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Old 11-29-2015, 03:34 AM   #1
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3970 Recieved

Just picked up my Voltage 3970 from the dealer today. I am sad that it will be a few months before we can get out, but it came with a list of things that the dealer needs to fix/have fixed: sagging roof near the center A/C, missing keys to the rear door, generator won't start from the interior control center, back-up camera screen was missing, and it hadn't been detailed. I got a "we-owe-you" for all of them but it really makes me wonder what else may be wrong.

Two aftermarket purchases the dealer recommended were to replace the locks on the generator storage and fuel pump doors and to replace the fuel caps with locking caps. Any thoughts on those two mods from experienced toy hauler owners?

Bob
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:01 AM   #2
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Maybe would have been best not to pick up until those issues were fixed. It would be done quicker and better if they didn't have check in hand. I wouldn't worry about changing generator door locks. If anyone is determined to unbolt and steal your generator, that flimsy door would be pried open in a second regardless of lock. There is a link somewhere here with an aftermarket gas cap model you can buy. Much cheaper than dealer doing it. Congratulations on the new unit.
Rusty
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:12 AM   #3
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Congrats on your purchase! Do you have air bags in your TV rear suspension?

Still waiting for my 3970, but will do PDI and then go south (from PA) for a couple weeks for a shakedown run. Planning to return it to the dealer to fix the things we find prior to nice weather, and will winterize before return. Only variable is if there are show stoppers on delivery.

Denny
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:25 AM   #4
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I put a standard set of Stant locking gas caps from Advanced Auto Parts on mine simply because we camp at NASCAR tracks a few times per year and you just never know... the tricky part was getting two that had matching keys.
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Old 11-29-2015, 11:24 AM   #5
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Rusty- I didn't want to pick it up with those issues but the dealer claimed not to have room to store it while waiting on parts. It will be back in about a month.

Denny- I do not have air bags on my truck, just on the hitch. I am moving up from a 8k travel trailer and it pulls so much smoother. I can tell there is more weight back there, but it is still much smoother. I-5 in this area is pretty rough and it pulled just fine.

Donzinger- Yes, matching keys would be nice, I will have to look around.
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:12 PM   #6
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Cruise the forum and you'll see all the stuff we've had to fix; air conditioning ductwork and tape, plywood under the master bed, construction crud in the water lines, shower leaks, etc. In short you'll discover that there was no quality control at the factory.

Oh, and don't forget to dump those Chinese tires ASAP. Plenty of threads here about that topic.
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:49 PM   #7
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In re the locking gas caps...

ACDelco part #12F24LA is a pair of keyed alike locking fuel caps that fit the Voltage fuel bays.

Got mine from Amazon for about $30
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Old 11-29-2015, 04:49 PM   #8
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Congratulations Bob.Stone!!! We recently purchased the 3970 and have yet had the chance to take it on the road. We had several things noted that need to be resolved by the dealer, but so far they have been awesome and have mailed us the missing items. We plan on taking the rig up next year for the warranty work. Unfortunately we have not run water through it yet since it's winterized. I hope we don't find issues there. One thing I have noticed is the "attention to detail" is lacking some, but when I posted here before picking mine up and shivering in my shoes, everyone was so helpful. At the end of the day we are prepared to make minor fixes ourselves and hope the dealership will make good on all the others. A good dealership is key, I believe, and remember you can find a different one if the one you purchased from is not responsive. Just relax and enjoy your rig. We are!!! In our yard anyways. LOL
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:28 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by bob.stone View Post
Just picked up my Voltage 3970 from the dealer today. I am sad that it will be a few months before we can get out, but it came with a list of things that the dealer needs to fix/have fixed: sagging roof near the center A/C, missing keys to the rear door, generator won't start from the interior control center, back-up camera screen was missing, and it hadn't been detailed. I got a "we-owe-you" for all of them but it really makes me wonder what else may be wrong.

Two aftermarket purchases the dealer recommended were to replace the locks on the generator storage and fuel pump doors and to replace the fuel caps with locking caps. Any thoughts on those two mods from experienced toy hauler owners?

Bob
2015 GMC 3500
2016 Voltage 3790
I replaced all of the genaric compartment locks on my camper, with keyed alike barrel locks from my locksmith.

Locking fuel caps are never a bad thing, there has been an increase in the number of people using their Midnight Credit Cards in the last few years. I put one on my truck so the kids at the full serve (what's full serve?) station wouldn't be sticking a gas nozzle in my deisel tank.
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:44 PM   #10
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Keystone has a rule that anything considered “adjustments” must be done in the first three months of ownership or they won’t authorize the repair. Our unit set on the dealer’s lot for a total of two months out of the first three of ownership, two separate service visits 30 days each. Both times I included on the list that none of the drawers would stay shut while traveling, among other items, some fairly major. The four lengthy service visits after then resulted in nearly nothing getting fixed either. The short story is the dealer didn’t fix much of anything during those visits and now Keystone is refusing to authorize the repairs since they should have been done in the first three months. It is in the shop now for major suspension repairs, entering week one of month five (total time unable to use in the first twelve months of ownership). Not to mention all the things I fixed myself at my own expense since I wanted to use our unit. Good Luck, I hope you got a good one and a good dealer, not like ours.
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Old 12-01-2015, 02:47 PM   #11
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Bob, The main thing is a good Dealer, I have one, but it still took almost a year to get it in for repairs, there are few Dealers that do a good job, so they are very busy. I only had a water pump, one jack leaking, a couple lights out, side moulding, and a few Decals
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Old 12-01-2015, 03:56 PM   #12
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Precisely why I did most all of the adjustments and repairs myself. I bought my trailer to be used, not to sit at a repair shop. This way I got to know my trailer and was assured that the work was done to my standards.
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Old 12-01-2015, 04:24 PM   #13
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Yes, but, when those repairs and adjustments require too much $$ that’s where I draw the line. I was not about to buy another couch section, 6 sets of drawer rails, a new table top, sub-woofer, rear side entry door, ramp door gaskets, etc, etc… I did perform all other adjustments and repairs that did not cost money while under warranty. I also replaced the broken AC blower fan at my expense because I needed the AC. While under warranty I expect to have those items fixed by the dealer. I find it amazing that after spending this much cash on these things that the poor quality and dealer ineptitude is given a free pass. I don’t think anyone would accept that from their car dealer.
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Old 12-01-2015, 05:56 PM   #14
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Yes, but, when those repairs and adjustments require too much $$ that’s where I draw the line. I was not about to buy another couch section, 6 sets of drawer rails, a new table top, sub-woofer, rear side entry door, ramp door gaskets, etc, etc… I did perform all other adjustments and repairs that did not cost money while under warranty. I also replaced the broken AC blower fan at my expense because I needed the AC. While under warranty I expect to have those items fixed by the dealer. I find it amazing that after spending this much cash on these things that the poor quality and dealer ineptitude is given a free pass. I don’t think anyone would accept that from their car dealer.
I think we all agree with you. Some of the guys here wouldn't go back to the dealer regardless of the cost. Most of us are like you; fixing what we can within knowledge and cost, as no one wants their unit tied up for weeks or months, let alone waiting for poor repair work. Like someone said, if you can develop a good relationship with a dealer who does quality work (they're out there if you look hard enough), you'll do all right. Might be worth a few hour drive if you have to. Good luck.
Rusty
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Old 12-01-2015, 06:01 PM   #15
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I think we all agree with you. Some of the guys here wouldn't go back to the dealer regardless of the cost. Most of us are like you; fixing what we can within knowledge and cost, as no one wants their unit tied up for weeks or months, let alone waiting for poor repair work. Like someone said, if you can develop a good relationship with a dealer who does quality work (they're out there if you look hard enough), you'll do all right. Might be worth a few hour drive if you have to. Good luck.
Rusty
I haven't found a competent Dutchmen dealer yet Apparently there are supposed to be some Camping Worlds that have competent techs too.

My trailer was relatively inexpensive, it is cheaper for me to do my own work. Biggest problem I have is sourcing OEM parts. Some stuff is generic and easy to come by, other things like sidewall A/C shrouds and cabinet color plywood aren't so easy.

I am convinced, now, that a thorough PDI prior to signing is about the only protection you have.


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Old 12-01-2015, 07:02 PM   #16
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I haven't found a competent Dutchmen dealer yet Apparently there are supposed to be some Camping Worlds that have competent techs too.

My trailer was relatively inexpensive, it is cheaper for me to do my own work. Biggest problem I have is sourcing OEM parts. Some stuff is generic and easy to come by, other things like sidewall A/C shrouds and cabinet color plywood aren't so easy.

I am convinced, now, that a thorough PDI prior to signing is about the only protection you have.


Aaron
Aaron,

I absolutley agree, far too many folks will allow their emotions to take over when they go to do the walk through. I refuse to call it a PDI, because that is what the dealer is supposed to do before they even put the product on the lot for sale.

The dealer we bought from fully understood that we would not be signing or writing the check until the walk through was completed. We picked up our camper in May and it was amazing how fast they got a service guy out to do the adjustments that should have been done we arrived.

However I do agree with thompwil, the RV dealers and Manufacturers are cut far to much slack when it comes to shoddy workmanship and poor manufacturing processes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, what the NA RV industry needs is some good old foreign competion, just like the auto industry had in the '60-70s. Of course that'll never happen.

The thing that I find really amazing is that with all the bitchin' and complainin' we see on the various forums about SAFETY defects, you can't find many reports to the NHTSB or our Canadian version.
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:16 PM   #17
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Aaron,

I absolutley agree, far too many folks will allow their emotions to take over when they go to do the walk through. I refuse to call it a PDI, because that is what the dealer is supposed to do before they even put the product on the lot for sale.

The dealer we bought from fully understood that we would not be signing or writing the check until the walk through was completed. We picked up our camper in May and it was amazing how fast they got a service guy out to do the adjustments that should have been done we arrived.

However I do agree with thompwil, the RV dealers and Manufacturers are cut far to much slack when it comes to shoddy workmanship and poor manufacturing processes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, what the NA RV industry needs is some good old foreign competion, just like the auto industry had in the '60-70s. Of course that'll never happen.

The thing that I find really amazing is that with all the bitchin' and complainin' we see on the various forums about SAFETY defects, you can't find many reports to the NHTSB or our Canadian version.
If it doesn't involve tires, axles, suspension, the frame or possibly something that can fly off, NHSTA doesn't really care. Supposedly the RVIA and the manufacturers are self policing, but we see how well that works. I have come to the conclusion that the smaller, privately held manufacturers seem to do a much better job of assembly and quality control. Some of the larger ones do okay, but there is much room for improvement. Not to mention customer service and offering some sort of service documents.

Interesting thing happened to a buddy of mine. He was looking at a 10 year old Born Free motorhome and there was something odd about the air ride suspension on it, along with a question about a missing part for the HWH hydraulic leveling system. He called the factory and they said they would have to call him back shortly. He provided the VIN, 30 minutes later the service manager from the factory calls him back with all the information he needed. They told him if he purchased the unit they would also send him the missing part for the HWH system. The unit came with a complete set of wiring and plumbing diagrams, not to mention color codes for interior fabrics, carpets and other finishes. THAT is customer service! Airstream used to provide a very comprehensive owner's manual, and for a fee a fairly complete service manual. Don't know how good the current ones are. I have looked at a variety used RV's in the past several weeks. It is amazing how well some of the 10 year old better build ones stand up compared to a 3-5 year old thrown together one.

I am all for the dealer doing a proper PDI, but from what I have seen they are sloppy, my inspection is going to be a lot more thorough because it is MY hard earned money that I am about to part with. I am a reasonable person and will accept some imperfections, but not issues caused by piss poor assembly.


Aaron
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Old 12-02-2015, 09:29 AM   #18
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Tiffin Motor Coaches are another good example. My Mom had two of their units. Again, all diagrams, instruction manuals, etc. On top of that, the continued to fix and adjust odds and ends way out of the warranty period. If you drove to Red Bay, they let you camp for free while they work on the unit. If I ever get a coach, it will be a Tiffin (unless I win the lottery and get a Prevost). LOL
Rusty
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:38 AM   #19
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Aaron,

I absolutley agree, far too many folks will allow their emotions to take over when they go to do the walk through. I refuse to call it a PDI, because that is what the dealer is supposed to do before they even put the product on the lot for sale.

The dealer we bought from fully understood that we would not be signing or writing the check until the walk through was completed. We picked up our camper in May and it was amazing how fast they got a service guy out to do the adjustments that should have been done we arrived.

However I do agree with thompwil, the RV dealers and Manufacturers are cut far to much slack when it comes to shoddy workmanship and poor manufacturing processes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, what the NA RV industry needs is some good old foreign competion, just like the auto industry had in the '60-70s. Of course that'll never happen.

The thing that I find really amazing is that with all the bitchin' and complainin' we see on the various forums about SAFETY defects, you can't find many reports to the NHTSB or our Canadian version.
You can add state law makers and the RV industry's lobbists to the list of reasons for poor quality products. When states (Florida at least) write RV lemon laws that specificly exclude "anything involving living quarters", the industry feels zero repercussions for lack of quality. What the hell is an RV except "living quarters"? And don't forget that fabulous 1 year, if we choose to honor it, warranty!
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:00 AM   #20
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You can add state law makers and the RV industry's lobbists to the list of reasons for poor quality products. When states (Florida at least) write RV lemon laws that specificly exclude "anything involving living quarters", the industry feels zero repercussions for lack of quality. What the hell is an RV except "living quarters"? And don't forget that fabulous 1 year, if we choose to honor it, warranty!
Until people vote with their dollars little is going to happen. Unfortunately a high percentage of the purchasing public pays attention to cheap prices and advertising. I am probably a salesman's worst nightmare. I do my homework and usually know more about the product line than they do. Which means their half-truths are worthless.

Plus having been around RV's for over 35 years and have worked on many different brands and types. I know what should be there and know what has changed for the better or the worse. I am still trying to figure out how they figured running rubber LP hoses in place of hard lines under the camper is acceptable. I haven't bothered to dig into the specs of the rubber lines, but I can about guarantee you they won't last as long as copper or black iron. But then again I think these things are built with a 10 year maximum life expectancy, based on the quality and type of materials used.

Aaron
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