Belly Insulation where did you go - Dutchmen Owners

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Old 09-23-2013, 12:55 PM   #1
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Belly Insulation where did you go

Recently my galley tank split for unknown reasons. When it was being repaired I asked the tech how much insulation is packed up under the belly when the coraplast belly pan was removed. He called me to advise the only insulation he sees is a piece of aluminum foil backing on the coraplast. There is no other insulation under the belly.
I find this odd since I have the Epic package and within in is advertised it has a cold weather package with R40 floor insulation.

Has anyone else opened their underbelly pan and noticed if they have insulation of any type under the floor.?? Where is the R40 Dutchmen is advertising and where is the cold weather package??
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:49 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Tanman View Post
...I find this odd since I have the Epic package and within in is advertised it has a cold weather package with R40 floor insulation.

Has anyone else opened their underbelly pan and noticed if they have insulation of any type under the floor.?? Where is the R40 Dutchmen is advertising and where is the cold weather package??
Damn good questions. Haven't had mine opened, so can't help... but will be interested in seeing the replies.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:42 PM   #3
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My understand from talking with the Voltage designer at the Hershey show is that the flooring is a laminated engineered system with subfloor, floor framing, insulation, underlayment and vapor barrier. The total engineered floor is a total of 3" thick and the aluminum foil paper adds additional R-value, reflective, beyond the R-40 engineered floor.

Based on this you would not actually see any insulation from below with the plastic honeycombed underbelly removed.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:54 PM   #4
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Floor description from Voltages site.

3" Thick Vacuum-Bonded One-Piece Floor
5/8" Structurewood® Floor Decking
1/4" Floor Liner Finished w/Water-Resistant Poly-Flex® Vapor Barrier
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:08 PM   #5
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Floor description from Voltages site.

3" Thick Vacuum-Bonded One-Piece Floor
5/8" Structurewood® Floor Decking
1/4" Floor Liner Finished w/Water-Resistant Poly-Flex® Vapor Barrier
I see that also but here is from the same page:

All Weather Package

Ducted Heat into the Garage, Underbelly & Pass-thru Storage Area
Vented Attic
40,000 BTU Furnace
R40 Roof & Floor
R24 Slide Floor
R11 Walls

And mine says all weather on a sticker outside the door. I dont think the poly=flex will give u anywhere R40 Maybe R1
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:25 PM   #6
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I've been on the roof and I can't see R40 up there. I'm sure the floor is the same way, not R40. The roof doesn't have that 3 inches of vacuum bonded floor on it so where does the roof get the R40 rating?

Must have been the student engineers that figured the R40 of those two surfaces.
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:28 PM   #7
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I was sold a pack of lies... Hopefully not...
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:23 PM   #8
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Don't let the negative aspects of our comments (or mine), dissuade you from persuing that Voltage. It's like being married, compromises are needed!!

Not always being the one to believe everything I like to see for myself when it comes to questionable things.

The question of the R factor in the floor, walls, and ceiling are questionable. I've been on my roof to repair the A/C air box failure by the manufacturer. I saw the layers that make up the roof structure. What I saw was the rubber roof covering, some sort of reflective coated membrane and the OSB or chipboard roof decking. All of this made up no more than 3/4" in material. Now, to be fair there is a space between the ceiling and the roof. I have seen in various places styrofoam and a thin bat type of insulation.

If all that constitues an R40 rating then I am seriously wrong given the roof and ceiling penetrations.

The same with the floor, pipe and wiring penetrations abound. Vacuum bonding of the floor is not to be mistaken for a floor substrate that is held under a vacuum. In order to maintain a vacuum all penetrations have to be sealed against leaks or no penetrations at all.

Here again, I may be full of it but the question still remains, how can 3/4" of stuff comprising the roof be equal to 3" of flooring? Does that floor process run through the entire unit? I don't think so because the slides don't have it and the floor in the bedroom sounds hollow.

All in all I think that the manufacturer used materials with the capability of being rated R40. That's like your Internet provider saying they offer 'up to' speeds but you won't see it and neither will we see R40 in these units.

This reminds me of a housing contractor that advertised R35 in the ceilings of his houses. People complained of cold interior walls in his houses. Inspection by the ROC revealed he did indeed use R35 insulation in the ceiling, however it was only placed on the perimeter walls of the house, nothing in the rest of the ceiling.

I truely wish Dutchman had a tour program where one could actually walk the assembly line and see first hand how these things are built from the ground up.
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Old 09-25-2013, 01:15 AM   #9
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Don't let the negative aspects of our comments (or mine), dissuade you from persuing that Voltage. It's like being married, compromises are needed!!

Not always being the one to believe everything I like to see for myself when it comes to questionable things.

The question of the R factor in the floor, walls, and ceiling are questionable. I've been on my roof to repair the A/C air box failure by the manufacturer. I saw the layers that make up the roof structure. What I saw was the rubber roof covering, some sort of reflective coated membrane and the OSB or chipboard roof decking. All of this made up no more than 3/4" in material. Now, to be fair there is a space between the ceiling and the roof. I have seen in various places styrofoam and a thin bat type of insulation.

If all that constitues an R40 rating then I am seriously wrong given the roof and ceiling penetrations.

The same with the floor, pipe and wiring penetrations abound. Vacuum bonding of the floor is not to be mistaken for a floor substrate that is held under a vacuum. In order to maintain a vacuum all penetrations have to be sealed against leaks or no penetrations at all.

Here again, I may be full of it but the question still remains, how can 3/4" of stuff comprising the roof be equal to 3" of flooring? Does that floor process run through the entire unit? I don't think so because the slides don't have it and the floor in the bedroom sounds hollow.

All in all I think that the manufacturer used materials with the capability of being rated R40. That's like your Internet provider saying they offer 'up to' speeds but you won't see it and neither will we see R40 in these units.

This reminds me of a housing contractor that advertised R35 in the ceilings of his houses. People complained of cold interior walls in his houses. Inspection by the ROC revealed he did indeed use R35 insulation in the ceiling, however it was only placed on the perimeter walls of the house, nothing in the rest of the ceiling.

I truely wish Dutchman had a tour program where one could actually walk the assembly line and see first hand how these things are built from the ground up.
I so agree with you on part of this but R40 insulation is R40 no matter how you slice it. I figured at least the underbelly would be crammed with 6" batts (R19) or at least down to the coraplast. Air is a small insulator but again it has to be sealed air not any leaks for heat or cold intrusion.
I would bet the floor is a R5 or R6 at best. I am very disappointed not to find any insulation in the underbelly. I cannot speak for the roof as i have not opened it up except to pull a puk light to feel for air flowing.

About the pictures I did see someone posted a while back pictures where they toured the Voltage factory and did a walk through from what appeared as a catwalk. It was about 5 or 6 very good pics posted. I think it was on this forum but not sure. I will try a search and see if I can find them and repost them. It was all staged of construction.

My intentions are to write and/or call and asks Dutchmen where the insulation is or where they get their fictitious figures. This is shameful and I have the all weather package.. What the hell is that?? If the box was really insulated the ac would work better and the heat also.
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Old 09-25-2013, 02:06 PM   #10
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My intentions are to write and/or call and asks Dutchmen where the insulation is or where they get their fictitious figures.
I would be interested to see what you find out from them.

Here are a couple of thoughts on the insulation. Technology today does not require thick layers of fiberglass to get high R-values. Reflectix (the shiny looking bubble wrap) can give up to R-21 with a little dead air space. Plywood has an R value. Tyvek house wrap adds R-3. Foam insulation has an R-value, the more the thicker and even more if it has the foil coat. Add a combination of these together and I can see it adding up to R-40 which is why I was wondering how the roof is constructed.

Another thought to this subject. If Dutchmen is making a blatantly false claim regarding this I firmly believe the FTC would have called BS a long time ago. They certainly have gotten into it with products for far less in the way of false claims.

My 2 cents.
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