Tankless????

The Owl · 02-14-2016, 07:22 PM

I have recently been kicking around the idea of upgrading to a tankless water heater.... I know its a bit of overkill especially considering we are by no means full timers. I just want to see if anyone has one, what they think of it, was the install done at the dealer or DIY? I'm the type that has a hard paying someone to do something I can do myself, or in some cases wrecking it and paying more to have it fixed.

Let me know......Thanks

sundancer 87 · 02-14-2016, 08:26 PM

The RV tank less heater looks to be pretty much plug n play. At nearly a thousand bucks it would be an expensive experiment.
One needs to only pull the old OEM heater out of the hole and install the tank less. Perhaps a little caulking and gas line modification and it should be good to go.
I put a tank less in the house last year during an overhaul. They work and are economically sensible since they aren't keeping 40 gallons of water hot.

The Owl · 02-14-2016, 08:41 PM

Yeah I have lots of experience with residential tanked and tankless W/H's. I also know all the down sides to them, unfortunately. When they work they are great but when they don't......look out. I would have to assume that the rv units are the same story. All about maintenance I suppose, the question then becomes, how much maintenance is it worth or if its even worth the cost in the first place.

sundancer 87 · 02-14-2016, 08:59 PM

Maintenance is not much more than draining the unit, which would be when the RV is stored for the winter.
The ROI on the heater is like the ROI on solar. They pay for themselves eventually but I think it's the convenience that makes it worth it. I had to have solar where I lived previously so it was a necessity, same as when I had the tank less there.

The Owl · 02-14-2016, 09:34 PM

I agree 100% as long as you can get the appliance to last long enough to hit the ROI. Most of the time when I install a tankless W/H most people are buying based on the fact that they will have endless hot water and the fact that they are more economical to operate is just a plus. But at four times the cost over a tanked unit and roughly the same "lifespan" the cost of fuel seems to be the determining factor, at least in our market. That being said I have replaced countless tanked W/H's that are far older that that 15 year lifespan. Solar is a whole other level I mean unless a panel gets broke you're good to go. I have done my fair share of that stuff as well. Four panel sets all the way up to 52 panels......

Pirate · 02-15-2016, 01:51 AM

Which tankless hot water heater are you looking at?

Thinking of going that way, but haven't found a lot to look at.

Thanks

Pirate

The Owl · 02-15-2016, 02:00 AM

Nothing in particular, I ran across this link a couple days ago and its been on my mind.

Instant Hot Water Heater Myths and Realities Revealed | iRV2 Forum

donzinger · 02-15-2016, 08:55 AM

One potential downside is that the lower flow rates we campers tend to use in water conservation mode could result in the unit not firing. Neighbor had this problem with a residential unit that would not fire unless significant water flow was detected by the unit. You may or may not dry camp, so your situation may be different. No first hand experience, just a thought.

hddecker · 02-15-2016, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donzinger

One potential downside is that the lower flow rates we campers tend to use in water conservation mode could result in the unit not firing. Neighbor had this problem with a residential unit that would not fire unless significant water flow was detected by the unit. You may or may not dry camp, so your situation may be different. No first hand experience, just a thought.

I was looking at putting in a tankless and the guy at the store talked me out of it. He said he would sell me one, but I probably would not be happy with it.

As it's just the two of us, using a ten gallon tank, I set the temp on the hot water heater towards to the high side of the of the safe range. We can shower one after the other and not run out of hot water and don't see a big difference in propane usage.

**wahoonc** · 02-16-2016, 02:14 PM

I have done a bunch or reading and research into the tankless for RV's. I was looking at putting a tankless unit in an Airstream that I was rebuilding, ultimately decided it wasn't worth the cost. Biggest issue(s) seems to be the amount of water wasted getting hot water to the faucet. If you are running off of a set amount of water this can get to be an issue quite quickly. Some units do better at low flow rates than others, gas pressure can be an issue too, it has to be set to pretty close parameters. Some people have had problems with some units not being able to mix the water temps properly, this, along with the wasted water issue can be partially solved by using feedback loops in the system. It can greatly complicate the installation. Currently IMHO one of the best systems on the market is a hybrid system from Truma AquaGo apparently they are only available by select OEM manufacturers and dealers for installation, not widely available yet.

I have used them for years in my houses and love the convenience of them when they work. I seldom have issues with them there. RV's... the jury is still out on them.

Aaron

sundancer 87 · 02-16-2016, 02:27 PM

Since the colder water has to be purged from the lines before the hot arrives wouldn't the amount of loss be the same as when a tanked unit is used? One of the RV tankless sits in the same hole as the tanked so the plumbing run would be the same I'd think.
I had a tankless in my solar house and it worked just fine. The water pressure was created by a 12 volt demand pump and the gas pressure was created by the normal off the shelf Marshall regulator. The gas was fed to the tankless in a 5/16" copper line and the water was in 1/2" plastic pipe. No problems for many years with that set up.

The Noritz that I install in the remodel house uses 1/2" gas line and wants 3/4" water line. Unfortunately the water lines in the floor are 1/2" so I was only able to use 3/4" a short distance. No problems so far with this unit.

**wahoonc** · 02-16-2016, 03:12 PM

From my understanding it takes more water flow to get the instant heater up to temp than just what you are moving from the lines like you would with a conventional water heater. Apparently the sensor on the demand heater has to have a certain amount flow past it prior to turning on the heat source. Most people that have installed them in RV's have not been all that happy with the systems. Not having seen the actual install, and not knowing the parameters of the specific systems installed it is hard to make a judgement call on just how well they work. I have no problem using alternative systems, if they work as advertised. However, as I have learned and observed in the RV industry, they like to use the consumer as the Beta Tester and push out unproven products, then when people complain they re-engineer things. If you want to give me a product to test for you, that's fine. But if you expect me to put down my hard earned money for non-proven system you have another think coming, or give me a half assed system that I have to fiddle with to make work properly, ain't happening.

Aaron

sundancer 87 · 02-16-2016, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wahoonc

From my understanding it takes more water flow to get the instant heater up to temp than just what you are moving from the lines like you would with a conventional water heater. Apparently the sensor on the demand heater has to have a certain amount flow past it prior to turning on the heat source. Most people that have installed them in RV's have not been all that happy with the systems. Not having seen the actual install, and not knowing the parameters of the specific systems installed it is hard to make a judgement call on just how well they work. I have no problem using alternative systems, if they work as advertised. However, as I have learned and observed in the RV industry, they like to use the consumer as the Beta Tester and push out unproven products, then when people complain they re-engineer things. If you want to give me a product to test for you, that's fine. But if you expect me to put down my hard earned money for non-proven system you have another think coming, or give me a half assed system that I have to fiddle with to make work properly, ain't happening.

Aaron

But, but, aren't you Beta testing a Dutchman product as we speak, like all of us on here?

hddecker · 02-16-2016, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wahoonc

Most people that have installed them in RV's have not been all that happy with the systems.
Aaron

That's pretty much what the guy told me, when I was looking to replace the old pilot light HW heater in my old Airstream. He said that taking a shower is like standing there and someone is peeing on you.

Every RV tankless heater that I have looked the temperature of the output is limited by the temperature of the incoming water. As an example the if heater can raise the temperature 40 degrees and you have incoming water of 50 degress, the output will be 90 degrees. Gonna be some very cool showers in the winter.

I can see they could work if they are designed into the build, but not as a retro fit in a camper.

I'm with Aaron, I'll leave the beta testing to others and when they have a direct replacement that can give you 120 degrees all day, I'll think on it again. But probably would still pass, after all how long can you stand in the shower wasting water when your boon-docking.

hddecker · 02-16-2016, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundancer 87

But, but, aren't you Beta testing a Dutchman product as we speak, like all of us on here?

I thought we were the warranty department.

DesertRat · 02-16-2016, 05:34 PM

If I need HOT water fast I just run both propane & electric at the same time.

**wahoonc** · 02-17-2016, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundancer 87

But, but, aren't you Beta testing a Dutchman product as we speak, like all of us on here?

Nope... my Coleman is old school wood framing and aluminum siding with no high tech stuff. I would figure by now they would be able to build those in their sleep. And given some of the things I have found I am willing to bet that is what they are doing.

Aaron

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