Tire Engineer joines the forum

[hddecker]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

Jim,
You would not believe the quality of current manufacturing, especially on the low end, or maybe you would. I have been asked to leave more than a few places because I am going through stacks of items and looking for the best ones. I have the local Northern Tools pretty ticked at me. We needed some replacement rims for one of our work trailers, after the first go around with some of them so bent or out of round they couldn't be used they basically asked me to go somewhere else.

Me and a buddy got thrown out of a local Sears store quite a few years back, we needed some carpenter's framing squares. We had a quarter sheet of plywood and were checking the squares for accuracy, we had about 4 on the good pile and about a dozen in the ain't good enough pile. Had quite the crowd watching us too. Sales manager was not amused.

Aaron

Aaron,

I know what mean about the state of modern manufacturing, the old school mechanic I worked for in the sixties taught me all about looking for quality.

Sounds like we could have fun shopping together. My wife cringes when I'm shopping with her, I have my own quality control process, if I can break it in the store, it ain't upto my quality standards.

Speaking of balancing tires, I haven't seen a bubble balancer used for years, but I still see them being sold at Princess Auto. I've thought about getting myself one, but then I'd need a changer to go with it, just no room for more stuff in my shop.

[calewjohnson]

Originally Posted by hddecker

Aaron,

I know what mean about the state of modern manufacturing, the old school mechanic I worked for in the sixties taught me all about looking for quality.

Sounds like we could have fun shopping together. My wife cringes when I'm shopping with her, I have my own quality control process, if I can break it in the store, it ain't upto my quality standards.

Speaking of balancing tires, I haven't seen a bubble balancer used for years, but I still see them being sold at Princess Auto. I've thought about getting myself one, but then I'd need a changer to go with it, just no room for more stuff in my shop.

Ha, bubble balancers! I have one at my house in FL for motorcycle tires. Two tire spoons and a bubble balancer and I am always good.

Cale

[calewjohnson]

Tireman,

Quick question concerning DynaBeads...your thoughts on them? Worth it? I put them in a trailer tire once, as I had a blown tire (that Chinese junk... ). I put 3 oz into the spare and aired up. Made the tire shop mad when I got new tires all around.

Cale

[hddecker]

Originally Posted by calewjohnson

Tireman,

Quick question concerning DynaBeads...your thoughts on them? Worth it? I put them in a trailer tire once, as I had a blown tire (that Chinese junk... ). I put 3 oz into the spare and aired up. Made the tire shop mad when I got new tires all around.

Cale

Cale,

That's funny.

Bet they didn't get as mad as the shop I took a flat to. The tire had about a pint of Slime in it.
I thought it funny, the guy that fixed it, not so much.

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by calewjohnson

Ha, bubble balancers! I have one at my house in FL for motorcycle tires. Two tire spoons and a bubble balancer and I am always good.

Cale

Need one of the old fashioned long arm bead breakers! Then you will be set.

We have a 40 acre hobby farm and part of the family owns a large auto/heavy equipment shop at the end of our private road. Not much we don't have around here if the need arises, and that includes heavy equipment. There are a wide range of heavy trucks, tractors, excavators, backhoes, etc. We even have our own cement mixer truck. It came in as part of a package deal from an equipment auction. Real interesting beast, it was used somewhere in an off road project, it is all wheel drive, 5 speed main transmission, 4 speed transfer case plus a hi/lo on the back end of that. It has something like 40 forward gears ranging from a slow crawl up to about 60 mph.

Aaron

[hddecker]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

Need one of the old fashioned long arm bead breakers! Then you will be set.

Aaron

Aaron,

Are you talking about the old slide hammer thing for busting the bead on the big rig tires.

Speaking of big rig tires and wheels, I had one of them split ring wheels blow up on me. I had just kicked a family of 4 out of the shop. Turned around to look at their flat and ka boom. the shock wave knocked me on my backside and the ring was stuck in the ceiling.

The idea of safety was nearly none existent back then, the only reason it didn't take my head off, I had the ring pointing toward the tire changer and was using one of them clip-on inflators. I learned what chains were invented for that day. Wasn't too long after that that safety cages became required equipment.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by MartyG

Tireman, thank you for joining our forum! We are all hungry for the knowledge and insight you bring. I'd like your thoughts on my theory:
I recently changed my four ST205/75R14's for a U.S. name-brand (though made in China) set. They carry the RH (reduced heat) designator, the C designator, and are rated as 6-ply.
I was at my friend's tire shop when we mounted and balanced them. Clean wheels, no dents/bents, and pretty tires. But they shook like all heck on the balance machine. 3 out of 4 took 3-ounce weights ( the big ones) on both the inside and outside rim. My buddy at the shop said, "oh, yes, those trailer wheels and tires are way out of balance!"
Further investigation finds that wheels do not come from the manufacturer balanced, and many tire shops have said, "we normally don't balance trailer tires" As if, "nobody's riding back there, so why bother?"
My theory is, based on the terrible shaking I saw, that perhaps some of these tire/hub/wheel failures might be traced back to bad balancing issues. Your thoughts?

Not having any hard date I can only make some educated guesses.

1. If confronted with that much out of balance first thing I would do is try balancing a wheel only. Wheels should not have much out of balance. It would be interesting to collect data on a dozen OE car wheels vs a dz RV wheels.

2. Again with 3 oz I would first break down the tire and rotate it 180 degrees to be sure I am not getting 1.5 from wheel plus 1.5 from tire.

3. It is said that you can balance a cinder block so another thing to check is out of round for the tire & wheel assy. A Google of "tire out of round tolerance" will bring up a number of good articles. 0.030" OOR ior less s a reasonable tolerance for wheels Best is Barry's. I know and trust his info.

Finally the cause of a tire being out of balance and/or out of round are probably non uniform building of the tire itself. Non-uniformities in a tire IMO can lead to one part being hotter than another (not good) One part having more or less strength than another (not good). These types of non-uniformities may lead to earlier failure (not sidewall flex failures but more likely Tread Separations.

As folks read my blog they can learn the different causes and different failure modes of tires. Some are maintenance related (owner) and some are manufacturing like tread separation can sometimes be traced to mfg issues.

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Not having any hard date I can only make some educated guesses.

1. If confronted with that much out of balance first thing I would do is try balancing a wheel only. Wheels should not have much out of balance. It would be interesting to collect data on a dozen OE car wheels vs a dz RV wheels.

~snip~

I can give you some data... Out of 24 trailer wheels in 15" sizes on the shelf at two different stores we managed to find 6 wheels that did not wobble or bounce when rolled down the aisle floor, I have only found car wheels that bad that have been sourced from a salvage yard. I suspect that the auto manufacturer weeds out the bad wheels prior to installation. Something that he RV industry doesn't do, they install defective items just to keep the units moving down the line. (yet another rant, that is related to the cheap tires) I have also found trailer wheels that have the center holes punched off center and out of round. There is basically no quality control when it comes to a lot of the Chinese made products. Yes they can make quality products. However too many of the US suppliers buy on price alone and it shows. Blame the American consumer for it too, they are the ones that shop price first and quality second or third, they are the ones flocking to Walmart, Northern Tools, Harbor Freight, etc. Where it is all about low prices and the consumer is the Beta Tester.

Aaron

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by hddecker

Aaron,

Are you talking about the old slide hammer thing for busting the bead on the big rig tires.

Speaking of big rig tires and wheels, I had one of them split ring wheels blow up on me. I had just kicked a family of 4 out of the shop. Turned around to look at their flat and ka boom. the shock wave knocked me on my backside and the ring was stuck in the ceiling.

The idea of safety was nearly none existent back then, the only reason it didn't take my head off, I had the ring pointing toward the tire changer and was using one of them clip-on inflators. I learned what chains were invented for that day. Wasn't too long after that that safety cages became required equipment.

We have those too. I was thinking more along the line of this one.

Aaron

[chily3]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

Blame the American consumer for it too, they are the ones that shop price first and quality second or third, they are the ones flocking to Walmart, Northern Tools, Harbor Freight, etc. Where it is all about low prices and the consumer is the Beta Tester.

Aaron

For sure, I try very hard to buy USA products. I do not go to Walmart for anything, Harbor Freight junk is not safe, (a spring compressor came apart, last thing a bought from them).

Save

[hddecker]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

We have those too. I was thinking more along the line of this one.

Aaron

I forgot about that one, the guy at the ESSO next to our shop in the NWT had one of them.

[Tobler Creek]

Last year we left for our trip out west pulling our 06 26FB Denali with the original tires. It was hot as blazes when we left and by the time we crossed over the AR. state line we had blown out two tires and had a flat on a third. We both were pretty shook and bought one new tire at a CW, all they had in ourST225/75 R 15 size. They sent us to a local tire shop in Rogers, AR. and we bought four new one's Of course they are imports I don,t know where made, most likely China. The sticker on the left side of our TT states inflate tires to 65#. That is what I have in them now. Should I inflate to 60#s as I know on the road in this heat that they will build up pressure over the limit.We had several days with the temp up to 103 this month I now keep the tires on 2X6 lumber and tire covers installed. We do not overload our TT Thank's Guys for your input!! Jim in Middle Georgia O, welcome Tireman 9

[hddecker]

Originally Posted by Tobler Creek

Last year we left for our trip out west pulling our 06 26FB Denali with the original tires. It was hot as blazes when we left and by the time we crossed over the AR. state line we had blown out two tires and had a flat on a third. We both were pretty shook and bought one new tire at a CW, all they had in ourST225/75 R 15 size. They sent us to a local tire shop in Rogers, AR. and we bought four new one's Of course they are imports I don,t know where made, most likely China. The sticker on the left side of our TT states inflate tires to 65#. That is what I have in them now. Should I inflate to 60#s as I know on the road in this heat that they will build up pressure over the limit.We had several days with the temp up to 103 this month I now keep the tires on 2X6 lumber and tire covers installed. We do not overload our TT Thank's Guys for your input!! Jim in Middle Georgia O, welcome Tireman 9

Hi, Jim.

Your OEM tires did well if you got 9 years out of them. Not too many folks are putting enough miles on their camper tires to wear them out before their Best Before Date. The majority of camper tires age out before they wear out.

When your shopping for new tires get a look at the date code for all the tires you are buying. If the dealers or the manufacturers aren't rotating their stock you could wind up with tires are years out of date.

The OEM tires on our camper had build dates that spanned 2 years and no two tires had the same date code.

It's one of the things that is very easy to overlook when your doing your pre-delivery walk through. Had I remember to check the age of the tires, the dealer wouldn't have got my money until all four tires had matching dates and were less that six months old.

The set that I put on the camper this spring were born the week of February 21-27/2016. I bought them in April, so they can't get much fresher than that.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by azdryheat

I gotta disagree on some of tiremans comments. I've had Chinese-made Goodyear Marathons and had two blowouts. They were not over loaded and the pressures were checked before each outing but still they blew and damaged the trailer. There was nothing left to take a picture of and Good Year kicked my complaint to the curb. They've got a nice little racket going there - nothing left of the tire means they won't have to pay off.

I once saw an ST mounted on the rear bumper of a trailer with a fancy vinyl wheel cover protecting it. The ST tire blew a hole through the cover while still on the bumper. We've had people on various forums who have also had their spares blow without ever touching the ground. I've seen new trailers at the dealer with damage from blown ST tires while the trailer was enroute to the dealer from the manufacturer.

No, Chinese-made ST tires are complete and total junk and should be banned from use. We saw the public outcry with Firestones blowing up on cars. We have our own outcry about ST tires but nobody is listening, nothing on the media. Nobody cares. And then a supposed tire expert comes along and says it's our fault. Blah, blah, blah.

Simply checking air pressure in AM does nothing about air loss due to puncture as you pull out of campground or even about a leaking valve because you checked the air.

HERE is what a Run Low Flex failure looks like 50 miles after the tires were check by owner. RLOF are not covered by any warranty.

Re overloading. Maybe you can help educate others by posting your individual tire loads as measured on a scale.

RE spare tire Was it covered with a white cover or was the fancy cover black?

Delivery drivers are notorious for exceeding the 65 mph max speed rating for St type tires.

RE Firestone. You do realize that it was Ford that specified essentially a zero margin on load capacity on the Explorer tires and that roll-overs continued even after the tire brand was changed.

RE No one listens or cares. I have to wonder how many complaints you filed with NHTSA that included the full DOT serial of your failed tires.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by calewjohnson

Tireman,

Quick question concerning DynaBeads...your thoughts on them? Worth it? I put them in a trailer tire once, as I had a blown tire (that Chinese junk... ). I put 3 oz into the spare and aired up. Made the tire shop mad when I got new tires all around.

Cale

Adding balance "stuff" can void a tire warranty, assuming you get your tires from a mfg that offers a warranty. Adding "Stuff" without changing to tire valves that have filters on them to keep bits and dust away from the valve seat can even result in a tire failure.

I use weights. Always have and always will. If I need more than 3 OZ I will rotate tire on the rim by 180° as that many times is result of a couple ounces on wheel lining up with a couple on tire.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Tobler Creek

Last year we left for our trip out west pulling our 06 26FB Denali with the original tires. It was hot as blazes when we left and by the time we crossed over the AR. state line we had blown out two tires and had a flat on a third. We both were pretty shook and bought one new tire at a CW, all they had in ourST225/75 R 15 size. They sent us to a local tire shop in Rogers, AR. and we bought four new one's Of course they are imports I don,t know where made, most likely China. The sticker on the left side of our TT states inflate tires to 65#. That is what I have in them now. Should I inflate to 60#s as I know on the road in this heat that they will build up pressure over the limit.We had several days with the temp up to 103 this month I now keep the tires on 2X6 lumber and tire covers installed. We do not overload our TT Thank's Guys for your input!! Jim in Middle Georgia O, welcome Tireman 9

1. TT should run the tires at the inflation on the tire sidewall when 'COLD". That means before in Sun and before being driven on for more than one mile. That is what "tire at ambient temperature " means.
1A. TT should run the tires at the inflation on the tire sidewall when 'COLD" to reduce the "Interply Shear" force that is trying to tear the belts off the tire due to suspension design of TT
2. NEVER bleed air out of a hot tire.
3. Pressure increases about 2% for each 10°F
4. Cover tires with white covers. Do not bake them with black covers.